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Personality Type Coaching and Social Media with Joe Arrigo

February 11, 2022

Helping people find their place in the world through personality type clarity.

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Welcome to Episode 12 of the Create Your Story Podcast on Personality Type Coaching and Social Media.

I’m joined by Joe Arrigo, Personality Type Coach, INTJ and LinkedIn and YouTube aficionado.

We chat about Joe’s journey to psychological type and type coaching and how he shares and connects with people on social media around personality.

You can listen above or via your favourite podcast app. And/or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

In this episode, we chat about:

  • Joe’s journey to being a type coach
  • Learning type as a language
  • The magic of understanding your type
  • Personal growth as an INTJ
  • The power of focusing on our weaknesses
  • Social media and type
  • Being extraverted via social media as an introvert
  • Tips for LinkedIn
  • Being visible on social media

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Welcome to Episode 12 of the Create Your Story Podcast and it’s the 11 of February as I record this. I’ve been enjoying two weeks of The Writing Road Trip Free Challenge inspiring and chatting with writers over the past two weeks with my writing partner, Beth Cregan and launching The Writing Road Map short course which starts on 28 February. More on that in a moment.

I’m excited to have Joe Arrigo join us for the podcast today to chat about Personality Type Coaching and Social Media and it’s a fabulously fun and deep conversation all at the same time with two INTJs, type coaches and social media lovers chatting.

Joe Arrigo is a newbie to the professional Type space. What started as a mild interest exploded into an obsession and a coaching business. His goal is to help people find their place in the world by bringing clarity to their personality type. Joe believes that the most important aspect to self-improvement is first knowing yourself. Everything else branches out from there. If a stubborn INTJ like Joe can have a transformation due to Typology, it can certainly do the same for others. He resides primarily on Linkedin and YouTube, and tries to bridge the gap between the Old Guard and New Guard of type.

Joe and I met on LinkedIn through our love for social media and via our mutual interest in personality and psychological type, particularly through the Australian Association for Psychological Type.  (AusAPT). I’ve had the pleasure of attending Joe’s session at the AusAPT 2021 Conference on being a new type coach and learnt more about his journey in psychological type and personality. But there’s so much more I didn’t know about Joe and there was so much more to explore.

Today we will be speaking about Joe’s work in personality type and coaching, the magic of understanding type as a lens and language in life, being an INTJ and understanding your type, the power of focusing on your weaknesses, social media especially LinkedIn, social media and introverts, and how to be more visible on social media. 

Before we head to the conversation with Joe, I want to let you know that The Writing Road Map is now open for enrolment. My friend, writing partner and brilliant writing teacher, Beth Cregan and I are your guides for this course which kicks off on Monday 28 February. This is  a 6 week intensive to plan your writing project from beginning to end and map the supports and tools that will make it happen. It’s about planning your writing journey now and getting clear on your writing project direction, terrain, scope and path, instead of wasting time on dead ends and by-roads and procrastinating. Plus you’ll enjoy community support, accountability and guidance along the way to inspire you and keep you going.

What you’ll get:

  • 6 x 90 minute weekly  Masterclasses (60 min workshop + 30 mins Q&A)
  • 1 x 2 hour virtual writing retreat
  • Guidance, skills & inspiration from 2 experienced writing teachers and authors
  • Weekly accountability prompts and follow-up
  • Community support & connection including via live calls and our private Facebook Group.

Plus a second bonus 2 hour virtual writing retreat with Beth and I if you sign up by midnight Monday 14 February AEDT Sydney time. So don’t delay!

So, if writing is a priority for you in 2022 – whether it’s writing a book, blog posts, a course, family history, anything at all, join us. Head to quietwriting.net/writing-road-map

An easy way to find them is to head to quietwriting.com/podcast and click on Episode 12 for the transcript of this intro and the podcast!.

Now let’s head into the interview with the fabulous Joe Arrigo.

Transcript of interview with Joe Arrigo

Terri Connellan: Hi Joe, welcome to the Create Your Story Podcast.

Joe Arrigo: Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. I just want to say upfront that I invited myself onto the show. I saw your posts on LinkedIn and I didn’t even know you had this thing going. So I was like, I absolutely need to be here. So thank you for letting me be here.

Terri Connellan: I’m so honored. That was great to receive your thought that you’d love to be on the show. I’m really excited to chat with you today. So we’ve connected around the personality, psychological type, via social media, and also through the Australian Association for Psychological Type where you joined us as a speaker at our recent conference, which was really exciting.

Plus we’re both INTJs so that’s really exciting to chat about how we see the world with similar preferences. So can you provide a brief overview about your background, how you got to be where you are and the work you do now.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. So what I usually say is that I was in film school and that I did what every film graduate does is after they go into sales because the film doesn’t work. And, so I did sales and I was like, a sales development rep and I was doing cold calls and things like that. And I was a recruiter and then COVID hit and I got furloughed and then, I was just like, maybe this MBTI obsession that I have, I should try to do something with, while I have the perfect amount of time in life to do this. I probably would never get another time in life where I get to have like commission checks still coming in, but like, they’re paying me to not be there. Maybe I can try to get this business going.

And that’s kind of the quick story of the furlough allowed me the time to start doing MBTI work. And, I always say that it’s sort of a synchronistic Carl Jungian type, like the door opened and it was a signal and it was like fate and I just said, okay, I’m going to do this thing. So that’s the very short story. I thought I was going to do a lot of corporate workshops, but I really found passion one-on-one coaching. I think it’s the more intimate, the more you get to know people more that you can really apply type. I just thought that the corporate way would be better, but it’s not as good as doing one-on-one coach.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. I love one-on-one coaching too. And I think that’s that ability to really engage with individuals about their story that I love.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. It’s interesting. There’s a lot of like every story is unique and I believe that for the most part, but I think that every one is a puzzle. Not to solve. I don’t want to say to solve, but there’s a unique aspect about them that I think the INTJ is really well suited for. Like helping find that missing piece or something.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. That’s a great way to think of it. I hadn’t thought of it as a skill for an INTJ coach to help solve the puzzle of the person. I guess that’s what I do, but you’ve said that beautifully. So thank you. That’s a great insight. So just to chat further about that, personality and psychological type of key frameworks that you employ in your work. Why did you choose to specialize there and how does type help people be more whole and self-aware?

Joe Arrigo: Well, I think type is universal. It’s always applied to people since we crawled out of the ocean type has always been something that applies and doesn’t matter what time period you’re living in. It doesn’t matter what age you grew up in, type can apply. You probably agree. We like the universal things, like personality type has always evolved, but like the core of the people stay the same, but it’s always evolving slowly over time.

So it really appealed to the authenticity, my Introverted Feeling, which was, I want to do something that is real work. And I was kind of doing jobs that were selling other people’s products or stuff that people didn’t need. So that really felt inauthentic to me. I also want it to be productive. It’s funny, I say this because I’m really good at LinkedIn, but there’s a lot of people that have made a career on being a LinkedIn coach or being a LinkedIn influencer, which is to me like the last stage of just like, it’s so meta for a job, but it doesn’t really help people. Personality type and psychology is always about helping people, so I think that’s what I gravitated towards.

And to answer your question about how to help them become more self-aware I think it’s that universal shared language that Jung created. Learning type is a new language. You are learning a new language. That is the hardest part. That’s where most people get stuck. But once you learn the language, you can articulate yourself to yourself or to other people in a way that previously you were like, I’m the only one that thinks this way. There’s no one else has ever had these thoughts before. And now you’re like, wow, this is what that’s called.

I think Ni [Introverted Intuition] for me was like, oh, that is the thing that I do. But before Jung, I don’t know if people knew what that was called, that shamanistic quality, I guess. I like to say that it’s when it’s that point in life, where you go from standard definition to 4K definition where you’re like, wow, I didn’t know what I wasn’t seeing.

It’s like when you put on glasses for the first time, you’re like, how did I live my life like blind before? How did I even function? And so that’s what I got out of it. And, I think it applies to most people.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. I love that. And I often say to people, working with personality type and understanding your type is like having an operator’s manual for your personality. So similar to what you’re saying, it’s that ability to have both the language and the framework. I often talk about frameworks to be able to make sense of…And you mentioned Ni which is that Introverted Intuition that we both share as a dominant function and certainly for me, and I know working with others, understanding what that Introverted Intuition for example is about and what it’s like and why I do what I do was just like magic. Wasn’t it?

Joe Arrigo: It is. I think all the functions have their own magic to them. I don’t know if you feel this way, but I think Introverted Thinking types are interesting to me because their capacity for deep diving into a subject or understanding that true essence of a thing is like unparalleled. But all the functions have their magic to it. I think in the community, there’s a rush to talk about Ni as if it’s like, the only one, the best one, that’s probably just like more NT types being in the community so they pump themselves up about it. But all of them are special, I think.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Just for those who are listening who don’t perhaps know about the types. There are 16 types, which you might’ve seen, the Jung/ Myers-Briggs types and we’re talking about INTJ, which we share. But as Joe has mentioned, all 16 types, all of the cognitive functions have their strengths, have their values and have their unique way of working.

And, there’s eight cognitive functions or cognitive processes, which came from Jung’s psychological type work. So, I’ll put some links in there for people who maybe want to know a little bit about that. So, I love that idea of that universal shared language. And where I really experienced that is at a type conference. And it’s the same on the internet, people who understand type, it’s just an ability to make connection as with any community where you have a shared language and shared understanding. But I think the real value for me is that it’s about personal development, personality development, understanding yourself and understanding others.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. And I’m writing something now. I don’t know where it’s going, but I’m writing something now about that’s why I value the one-on-one coaching is because it’s first about understanding yourself. And then only then can you do anything about your interpersonal relationships. So I think like presenting type to a bunch of newbies at a workshop has some utility, but you can’t get that nuanced approach that you can with a one-on-one. So I think that would be the way to go if anyone’s like here’s this podcast and wants to move forward. I would say like getting involved with a coach one-on-one is probably the best path for development, rather than a workshop or something.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. I totally agree. I think the value of doing that deep inner work. And to me, it’s an ongoing thing. You start, you get your frameworks, you start to learn the language, the skills, get the insights, connect with other similar and different folks in different ways. And read the books and I think that group aspect and that interaction aspect is much stronger once you understand a bit more about yourself.

So we both have INTJ preferences as we’ve mentioned, so that’s introverted, intuitive, thinking, judging, and it is one of the rare of the types. So tell us about your personality type and the psychological insights you’ve gained over time that have helped you with self leadership and with personal growth.

Joe Arrigo: That’s so funny. People kept telling me that I had a bad memory and I was like, no, I have a good memory. I remember things. But then once I learned type and I learned the cognitive functions and I have memory for weird things, but I don’t have like a photographic memory.

So like first thing I learned was like my weaknesses, bad memory. The misunderstandings that come along with some of the jokes so that I would tell, or like the subtleties that I thought were really funny, but people didn’t understand it. I didn’t get why, what they didn’t get. And that was like part of the Extraverted Feeling that I’m not very good at.

So I learned my weaknesses and I go, okay, that’s what I have to deal with, these are my paths for growth. But some of the successes I attributed to being a pretty good thinker, extraverted thinking and taking action, being effective and not just having the wild-eyed idea, but then be like, okay, what are we going to do about it?

So I learned that, but then once you know what that’s called, then you know how to use it. If you don’t know what anything’s called, then you’re just like, assuming that you’re just walking around just like everyone else. So kind of like a zombie where you just don’t know you have no direction.

But, I think I learned that I had drive, that came out of my personality. Like I, and you probably feel this way, if you see something, you see the road very clearly, then it’s almost an inevitability that it’ll happen. As you get older, you’re just like, okay, I thought about it, I’ve planned. It. The only thing is like, when is it going to happen?

 I learned that the worst thing to say to an INTJ is time is running out because like you want to accomplish all this stuff. But I learned that I had a vision that I couldn’t explain and that it wasn’t doing me any favors to try to explain something that I wasn’t really sure where all the dots were connecting or all the lines of best fit were coming together.

I thought it was funny that they would call INTJ’s a conspiracy theorist. And that’s just because the lines that connect don’t quite make a lot of sense. So I learned in my speech and when I pitch projects to people or pitch ideas, I have to be like, don’t take your crazy idea and tell them like, take the more linear approach and do it that way. So I learned that in the first one or two years of understanding myself.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, I really relate to those too. As you were talking, I was thinking about how I’ve experienced similar things in my life. And one area is in leadership, for example. So I would know as a leader where I wanted to go, I could see the vision. I could see where I wanted to take people, but I really had to then break down that vision into the practicalities, the steps of, we need to do this and here’s why we need to do it. Both for myself and for other people. Because I think one thing that can happen if you’re not connected with the practicalities and tapping into the logical steps side of ourselves too, is get carried away with the vision itself. You’ll get it done, but maybe it’ll take longer because of not rooting yourself in the practicalities of it. Do you relate to that?

Joe Arrigo: I do. I do think we’re willing to try out a bunch of ideas and not be sad if they don’t work. But I do think that there is a bit of idealism that the INTJ has about how things will turn out. So I think like when Keirsey kind of put the NTs as the Rationals, I think NTs actually can be very idealistic about things too. So like, are you being practical with this idea? Like you’re going to create the first trillion dollar company? I don’t know. Joe, how do you think that’s going to happen?

Terri Connellan: The other example I thought of is when I come up with an idea, say for a group coaching program, it’s the sales page that is the hardest part for me. It’s how do I take what I know it’s going to look like, what I know is going to be great for people into language and into something that’s going to connect with people. And again, it’s tapping into that feeling and it’s almost like slowing yourself down to have a really good look at, so what is this actually going to do for people? And how can I put that into words?

Joe Arrigo: I struggle with that. I’ve struggled with this whole thing. And I talked to a lot of INTJs, NT types that for coaching, psychological type specially, personality, the ROI for our customer is not always apparent. If I’m a sales coach, I’m going to say, oh, in the next year, you’ll have a 10% better return because I’m going to write better sales scripts. Like it’s super easy to quantify that ROI. But for some people it’s like understanding yourself better isn’t a number. That you can go, like you’ll understand yourself 75% better, or you’ll have 33% better communication with your spouse. Like good luck trying to quantify that. I always go like, if people are asking, well, what am I going to get out of it? They’re not the right customer for me.

Terri Connellan: It’s funny, isn’t it? We’re talking about one particular personality type, but what we’re sharing too through how we’re talking is that this is the same, in a coaching conversation, in a one-on-one conversation, particularly using type insights, it’s clarity you can get to help you be clearer on your strengths, but also your blind spots.

Joe Arrigo: Yes. Sometimes I think just the weaknesses are better because your strengths are always going to be there. You’re just going to naturally either plateau or get a little better as you get older with your strengths, but the weaknesses are where you can have that real growth.

Sometimes, I think it’s just helpful to focus on the negatives out of the gate and manage the way forward. There’s some people that talk about balancing your functions or like doubling down. I think doubling down on your weaknesses or on strengths is good, but I don’t think you’ll balance. There’s no such thing. You’re just not going to balance like, be the same level of intensity and awareness of all of them.

Terri Connellan: I relate to what you’re saying. What I find in my coaching is I like to focus on areas for development and often it’s just one small thing which can be tweaked. Like it doesn’t have to be huge. Sue Blair’s particularly talked about how just making some minor differences, just a small tweak in some of areas which might be our weaknesses or our blind spots or our non preferences can make a huge difference to everything.

Joe Arrigo: It’s funny. It’s like you talk to, for those that know the type you can, you’ll laugh, but for those that know the ENTP, you’d be like, I think that sometimes ENTP can be a bit, you know, argumentative. They’re like, no we’re not. So it’s like, okay, you’re not even aware of that thing that you just did. So I think once you put that mirror up in front of people, they’re like, oh, I guess like everything’s a debate, even if I agree. So I think all the types have that moment, they all have it. If you’re, if you’re decent enough at coaching the model, they all have this revelation that’s life changing.

Terri Connellan: I think probably that journey we went through ourselves is exactly why we chose to get into type coaching, using type in our coaching because we saw the huge difference it made for us. So, I think the majority of us working in this field would have had that same revelatory moment.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. I haven’t asked everyone about this, but I’m sure that like 99% of the people that are in type had that light bulb moment. Like there’s nothing else I can do with my life besides this now.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. For me, when I went through my transition, I made a list of my things I wanted to do to shift from the job I was in to the work that I do now. And top of that list was get skilled, more skilled in personality type. So it was right up there. So we met through social media, particularly LinkedIn, and you have a passion for social media and very active on LinkedIn. And you also have a great YouTube channel and you’ve got inspirational posts, great engagement. So interested to explore that area with you. Why do you engage so actively on social media and what do you love about it?

Joe Arrigo: I think it really gives me a chance to be more extraverted. Like there’s certainly a persona online. I do think my authenticity comes across. I’ve had many people say that I’ve met in person or just like had real intimate conversations with it. Like, oh, you’re the exact same person that is represented. So there’s not like a big change. I can just tell some people have a real difference in their persona and their real life.

And I think it’s just a good creative outlet for our type. I wasn’t really good at graphic design, but I knew that I was so jealous of people that could do it. So I learned through Canva and made some cool designs, then I started doing some memes and I’m like, I can learn this and I can expand my creative outlet, which I don’t think INTJs, are known as being very creative in the artistic sense. But I think, LinkedIn and social media gave me that outlet I would not have had before.

And then it gives me a place to reach people, possibly clients or reach people that just through normal networking I wouldn’t be able to meet. It gives me a chance to let all the vision and stuff come out and see how other people actually respond to it.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. I love seeing your posts and seeing how you interact with people. And I love too that you see it as a chance to be more extraverted and I think that’s true. It’s almost like being extraverted on your own terms, like choosing when you engage, choosing when to create the material, but then being able to connect with people, have the conversations you might have perhaps at a function if you were together, but asynchronistically in our terms, when it suits you, managing your energy. So, that’s an interesting perspective and I definitely agree, creativity is definitely a big one for me.

 I love the creative aspect of social media. I tend to focus more on Instagram. That’s the place where I hang out. But, I love watching your LinkedIn and I think many could learn from how you bring that creativity, that engagement, and particularly memes and using video. You use video a lot too, don’t you?

Joe Arrigo: Yeah, it’s more time consuming. It gets less views and engagement on LinkedIn, but, I’m just convinced and many books have been written about this, that they see you, they see how your mannerisms are, they see how you talk, my wife is in a lot of my new videos.

So like Joe is a real person, he doesn’t have like a PR team of social media managers that are answering his emails or stuff like that. So when they’re ready to engage with me, if they’re like, oh, it’s like, this is the guy, I already know him. So that helps a lot with building trust because you need that with what we do.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. And it’s just a fantastic way to connect. Connecting with people in the field, like, Dario Nardi and the guys from Personality Hackers, yourself. Authors for example, I love connecting with people who’ve written the books that I read. I just think that’s gold.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. Gosh, I really took a different path. I read a lot. I read all the books before I got really involved with the YouTube community. I’ve been kind of making my way through a lot of the books. I know that you have a book, right? Is it fiction?

Terri Connellan: Yeah, my book’s, Wholehearted, it’s nonfiction, self-leadership for women in transition, and I weave personality type into that book.

Joe Arrigo: Okay. Well, that’ll be one I’ll have to read then I’ll have to get a signed copy though. So, and I think I’ve had some luck. I’ve had some people kind of pull some strings on my behalf. I just interviewed Linda Berens, which is great. I got to interview John Beebe, Dario, of course. So yeah, those are the people that really have pioneered parts of personality type that we need that knowledge, especially as a young type coach. I wouldn’t go to YouTube right away before you have the basics, like have the real structure of it settled. So, I’ve been really fortunate to talk to those people.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, and I think that ability to have conversations like this, or I know you do the LinkedIn shorts for example, have chats with people. So it’s all great ways to connect and to learn, to engage and do it on our own terms and in ways we can manage our energy as introverts particularly. So do you have any specific tips for LinkedIn given it’s a platform that operates a little differently? A lot of people in my community for example, are on Instagram and Facebook, not so much on LinkedIn and I know some people find it more challenging than other platforms. So what tips do you have for LinkedIn, for people engaging or getting into that platform?

Joe Arrigo: To come up with a consistent way that you can provide or create content. I wouldn’t say get as stringent as a content calendar, but be consistent. If you’re going to post, make yourself post a certain amount of times per week, around the same time so people get used to that. People follow you. They might not consciously know, but they’re like, Joe always posts at 7 45 Eastern time and he’s always in the morning. And so that helps to be consistent. It also makes you create content. I think consistency is better than like the absolute best content in the world. Some people say, don’t post, unless it’s fabulous content, but most LinkedIn influencers and people that have grown a decent audience will say consistency is the most important thing.

 I would say have a real opinion that’s not manufactured. Commenting on the new story of the day is great, but it doesn’t provide anything new. So if you’re not going to be adding something new or unique or a new spin. Think of something, keep thinking until there’s something like, wow, that’s a unique thought.

Respond to comments. A lot of people post and then never respond to their audience. So that’s a quick way to alienate people like, oh, he’s just in it to get likes and clicks and he is not in it to actually engage. I hate when people do that. And then proactively connect with people. So don’t wait for your inbox to fill up with invites. For six months, I was only searching for people by their type on LinkedIn and a ton of people put their types. I was just doing quotes, INTJ. And I was like adding all the INTJs I could find.

And then I did ISTJ the next day. So then you can connect. Then I was doing MBTI certified. And then I was finding all the MBTI folks. So that’s how I built up the community that way. And then just mix up your content, videos, memes, texts, pictures. Don’t just be a text poster.

Some people will definitely disagree with me. I know there’s one person who’s like all text posts cause it helps algorithm. But I think seeing your face on video really is helpful even though it’s way more work. So I think those would be my tips.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, great. That’s so much value in those quick tips you’ve given us. And, I think that idea of proactively connecting, particularly around the content that you’re creating and going, seeking out connections is a really great tip and it can apply to anything, can’t it? Like if you’re in recruitment or coaching or authors for example, anything you do, you could use that same technique.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. I do some side coaching on LinkedIn. I don’t advertise it, but people will just ask me if I can help. You would be so shocked at what people will put on their, About section on LinkedIn. That’s a searchable term. You could just put like, A Trak enthusiast or collector of stamps. Put that in on LinkedIn. And there’ll be like thousands of people that are into that, that you just didn’t realize they put it out there in the world. And now you have a whole new audience of people to talk to. So ridiculous search terms are the way to go.

Terri Connellan: Interesting. Yeah. I wonder if some of the challenges people have, probably people like me, is because they used it in a corporate sense in their job role. So it was more a way to say, well, here I am, here’s what I do, not that way of connecting. So it’s actually a mindset shift to see LinkedIn in a different way.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah, most people aren’t their jobs. Like on their gravestone, they’re not putting digital marketer, I guarantee you they’re putting something else. So that’s a better place to connect with them is what they’re about, not what their title is and all that stuff.

Terri Connellan: Yeah and your YouTube channel is fantastic. I was just hopping in there to have a look at your latest and you had a fantastic video there about why the INTJ will end up poor and homeless, which was a great grab title about why we don’t see money as a primary focus, which I’d again, totally agree with. I’m married to an ISTJ as I know you are. And that was a great move.

Yeah. I think, again, it’s just an example on YouTube, you’re obviously doing different content, maybe some cross-fertilization, but using this specific channel in a way that’s going to reach people on that platform.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. I think dynamism or being dynamic is interesting because there are more facets to people. So like I have my professional LinkedIn persona, but then I also have like a whole other field, which is YouTube, where it’s obviously a lot more informal, but it’s kind of funny but it’s still helpful because it’s still all around types as a professional use of type. And then there’s like a fun use of type. But I have booked some of my closest clients through YouTube. So you just never know what’s going to get people to be like, oh, Joe, what you said about being poor and homeless, like really resonated with me. I’d love your help. Like you never know.

Terri Connellan: That’s great. I love seeing the way you work, and there’s plenty to learn from engaging with you and connecting with you. So recommend that to folks.

 Given you have so much and produced so much fabulous content and engagement, people must be wondering how much time you spend, what helps you to keep up such a regular schedule of posting and interacting. So if you could share a bit about that with us, that would be great.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. I kind of said something about like a content calendar. I don’t have a content calendar. What I have was that running idea list and now it’s muscle memory now that like I gotta post, I was like four times a week. So I have a constant note that says, make a new meme, write a new blog. Probably like 25% of my posts are not planned. They’re just spur of the moment that like that Ni lightning hits you and you’re like, I gotta do this post right now, but that’s like 10% of the time. So you can only do it if you’re passionate about the subject.

Like if you hate what you do, you will not be able to post that consistently. You’ll be so like, your soul will die a little bit each time you have to post. But for MBTI, there’s limitless possibilities.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, for sure. My problem’s often, what do I post today? Cause there’s so many ideas buzzing around, but, I like that idea of just having a running ideas list. I think sometimes too, we can over-complicate things.

Joe Arrigo: I think that people that are in situation need to just start. Just throw an idea out there. It may not do well at all. I had the same conversation with Sue Blair right after my presentation. And she did three or four really good posts that got like incredible engagement. And she was like, oh, Joe, this actually was really good. And I’m like, yeah, all you gotta to do is start. You have so much knowledge. Like, you’re basically like holding back humanity by not putting your knowledge out there.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, they were a fabulous posts. It’s just a reminder for all of us, working at our zone of genius and where we want to show up how we want to show up and what ideas we want to put together and just putting that together. So, one thing I’ve noticed is working with clients is visibility and vulnerability is something that particularly some types seem to struggle with more than others or maybe it’s individuals. So have you noticed any patterns around type or do you find it’s more an individual thing that issue of visibility and vulnerability in social media?

Joe Arrigo: Well, I do think it is a type thing. I think it’s more the F types you see engaging. So either introverted feeling types or extroverted feeling types tend to be very into vulnerability. There definitely is a shift towards mental health and the celebration of those who talk openly about mental health across the world with the pandemic, even more. So I think that those types are much more okay with being visible as someone that’s had mental health issues or struggles, or saying, ‘Hey, if you are struggling, reach out to me, I’ll help you.’ Or ‘can I help you?’ I think that is more the F type if you want to just speak broadly. F types tend to be more open with the visibility and vulnerability aspect of social media.

But you can almost see the types so clearly in a discussion, especially in argument, how some people want to argue very factually or they only post memes about facts or they actively say like, stop crying about this. Like you can clearly see the TF dichotomy so clearly, I think that’s the easiest one to see is like that dichotomy of which types are willing to be more controversial, argumentative. There’s some people that’ll just like back down from an argument and that might be more of an F type. Like they’re agreeing with everyone. They don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. So they’re like, yeah, thanks for your input. I appreciate it. Yeah, you could see that there. Do, do you see that? Let me ask you that question.

Terri Connellan: I work a lot with NF clients, INFJ, INFP, and I do notice that for some of those folks, the connection is really important, but what I see is that, it’s almost like, every post has got to be right. This connection, the feeling has gotta be right. So it’s almost too much, becomes too challenging. And I also say that that people who tend to have those types tend to be the ones saying I’ve got to step off social media. I need a break. I need some time and I’ve said that before, I very rarely feel that. To me, it’s just part of my everyday. I’ll post beautiful birds on my deck and on Instagram and I’ll share about the books I’m reading. And sometimes I’ll do much more crafted posts related to my book or my content, but social media isn’t a drain to me. So that’s one thing I see and, if people need to do that, that’s what they need to do. It’s not a criticism. It’s just an observation and everybody’s different. And certainly for me, I don’t find social media drains my energy, for example,

Joe Arrigo: There are certain times when it drains me but I do think that certain types are much more effected by what’s going on, on social media that day. Like if there’s some sort of political event or there’s some sort of social unrest, they see too many people posting negative things, they actually have physical sensations of like depression or like something will happen to them so that that’s when they’ll take the breaks, as you said, that’s a good point. That would be an interesting experiment just to get the data. You don’t need the data we know, but, yeah, that they are more likely to just take a mental health break.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, that’s right. So I think that’s a really good observation too. So lots of different ways we all engage with social media, some of them influenced by personality, some by individuals and some by what’s coming into our feed. Interesting to have a look at those issues. So what tips would you provide for people who want to be more visible on social media and on podcasts, but find it challenging?

Joe Arrigo: I think the first thing would be to be extremely good, looking that’s number one, just kidding.

Well, like I mentioned, you really just have to find something that you could do a presentation on right now. Has to be a topic that any second of the day, you could do a speech on it, cause that means that you have enough content in your brain, that you could be visible in your niche, whatever your passion is about. So that’s the first thing you got to figure out what that is. I think that people will find it challenging are those, there are certain types of tend to have like analysis paralysis. I think the INTJ falls into this. I think a lot of thinking types might fall in this as well, where they just need to get one more search or they just need to read one more book or they need to take one more LinkedIn class before they can finally, I’ll be an expert and I can start talking about the subject.

 If that is your goal, you’ll never be ready to get out there and post on social media. It’s kind of a sales technique, but give yourself like 30 days, 30, 60, 90 days, see where you’re at. You might post and get zero likes and then just get depressed and no one likes your content, but you gotta be consistent or you’ll never really know. So, I think to answer your question, start with something you could talk all day about, and then chop it up into little anecdotes or content.

Terri Connellan: Great. I love that. It’s nice and simple. And I think like a lot of things it’s just starting and learning from doing rather than trying to get it perfect. For a lot of people if we looked back on our early attempts at social media, it’d be nothing like what we’re doing now, because we’ve been on the journey. We’ve connected with more people, we’ve learnt skills along the way. So, I think encouraging people to hop in and have a go and do different things. But yeah, definitely start with what you know, where you feel comfortable’s a really good tip. So thanks for that. So a question I’m asking each of the guests on the create your story podcast is a big question, but interesting to see what comes to mind for people. How have you created your story of your lifetime?

Joe Arrigo: Man. I’m one of those people that like, every time I hear this thing about what is your story? People want to hear your story? Like, I never think it’s interesting. I’m just like, it’s really basic. There’s nothing like, people have to hear this because once they hear Joe’s story, like, oh my gosh, those people are going to be booking you like crazy. And all these book deals are going to be coming in. And, how have you created your story?

Terri Connellan: Something that’s been a real driver or a purpose, or maybe some learning that you learned early on, it’s something you can consistently provide. Some people commented, and it’s interesting looking at type is that it’s tended to be, they’ve just done what they’ve done. And then they’ve had a backwards view to see what actually worked. So is it intentional?

Joe Arrigo: I think it became intentional, like I think my story has been one of striving for intelligence, or some sort of universal knowledge that can be applied, like finding the essential truth. Recently there was a quote I saw from Tesla, who’s an INTJ and he said something like, my brain is only a receiver and that’s how I in through that, I get the secrets of the universe.

And I was like, that is exactly what I’ve been doing. Like every thing I want to do or strive for is like an essential truth or how things are, how things are all connected. So in 2020 I made a goal to read a hundred books and I read 105 and I was like, okay, that’s great. And that’s a goal that I could accomplish, put my mind to it.

But within that is like, I want to be a sponge for knowledge, because eventually I’ll take that and I’ll do something amazing. So I think that is my story arc is lifelong learning will lead to some sort of universal discovery that I can then apply to everyone. I think that’s going to be my arc. I don’t think I’m going to be a millionaire. I don’t think I’m going to be like, Forbes 40 under 40, anything like that, but I don’t think that would match the profile of me as an INTJ.

Terri Connellan: I love that idea of essential strengths, patterns, how things are connected and that idea of investing yourself in books, in learning, discovering things, that universal discovery, the patterns. Again, that’s very introverted intuiting, the patterns, how things connect and then making new connections, new insights to share with others.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. And just to go back to the Tesla thing, I think that all the types, as dumb as it sounds at the beginning, all the types need to find a type that inspires them historically. Like Personality Database whatever you think about the site, it’s kind of funny, but it’s all user driven typing, but they’ve typed everybody from everywhere across the world. And every literature, non-fiction, fiction, like everything that can be typed has been typed. And you go to INTJ, you look at the historical figures, political figures, authors, and you read those authors books, or you read the story about like, I’m reading a book on Elon right now. I’ve read a book on Bobby Fischer. And I’m like, these guys have the same in a way mindset that I did and look what they did. So an ENFP could do the same thing with famous ENFPs, read their story, read their struggles, like, cause I believe things are cyclical. So if you can see where things are going or other ENFPs or ISFPs have been, I think that’ll be more valuable than just randomly reading books, because like they’re a top seller.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, absolutely. I did my training with Mary McGuiness, who you might know, the Australian psychological type leader, and she’s a great lover of memoir and story, and biography. And when you’re training with her and spend time with her, she’s talking about people’s stories and that’s what I’m interested in too, that idea of, as you’ve just mentioned, read the memoir, find the inspiring stories, find people, maybe like you and look at their life story and see what you can learn from it. So, that’s great advice. So the other question I’m asking folks, in my book Wholehearted, is about self-leadership for women in transition, applicable to men as well and I have 15 wholehearted self-leadership tips in there. So I’m just interested in what your top wholehearted leadership tips and practices might be, whatever that means to you. So, again, just drawing from your experience, what would you draw out as a few key tips to give to others, to help them with leading themselves through life?

Joe Arrigo: Yeah, this is a question that comes up in my coaching and I was going to mention it earlier, but, this is a perfect time for it. First thing it’s like, Fi, it’s the, what’s your values? What’s your inner compass? Most people will not admit it. They really won’t. When you say, what do you want to do? They’ll give you like some answer that’s not actually what they want to do. Because either they’re embarrassed that society would say, oh, no, you want to do that? No, that’s never going to make any money or that’s so childish or like, how are you even going to do that? So they, they just don’t tell you really what they want to do.

Like, I want to do greeting cards. I want to write greeting cards. I feel like they’re never gonna make any money. So they just don’t, they’re not honest with themselves. So then they pursue things that are like only half-heartedly into. So I would say like your north star, whatever you want to call it then once you do that, you can have passion towards actually accomplishing your goals. Like, in terms of self-leadership, it’s kind of funny because I really have been promoting the 8 Keys to Self-leadership book by Dario, which is kind of a perfect way to just open the book, look at any page and go, oh, can I do that well? Oh, I need to really ask myself this question about introverted sensing. Am I making the same mistakes a bunch or something like that?

 In terms of self-leadership I was doing an interview with another INTJ and he said the first thing is make sure you’re not lying to yourself or make sure that you’re internally consistent with your beliefs. Like don’t criticize people for being overweight and drinking while you’re at a bar. You know what I mean? So I think that’d be the number one thing is don’t deceive yourself, which is why I get so upset with people when they use their title, their position, as a way to say that I don’t need to develop. I’m already the C-level person at this company. Like I’m done, but that’s just, self-deception right there.

Terri Connellan: I love that. Just starting with your values, which for some people will be quite natural and for others, it won’t be so natural. Your values I guess are pretty consistent, but they get shaped over time and you’re clear about them over time. So I think that’s great advice. And Dario’s book, 8 Keys to Self-leadership there. Dario Nardi. It’s mentioned in my book. It’s a great resource which I use a lot in my coaching as well.

And it’s that idea that it’s each of the eight cognitive processes and functions. And as you’ve said, just that ability to open it any page and have a think about, introverted thinking, extraverted feeling, where does that sit? You don’t have to have a huge knowledge of personality type to just dive in and understand more.

And Dario’s a very accessible author and based on neuroscience. So it’s a great place to start. So, yeah. Thanks for that tip too. Okay. So, that wraps up our conversation for today. It’s been a fantastic chatting with you. Where can people find more about you and your work online?

Joe Arrigo: I would say first, thank you for having me. This is really fun. I could talk double this amount of time about personality types. So could you. So thank you for having me. This has been awesome. And I really think LinkedIn is the place where I’m at the most. I respond to direct messages. You don’t need to fill out a form. It won’t take me 24 hours to get back to you. So if you want to engage, we can do LinkedIn. My YouTube channel is Ghost of Jung so I also respond to comments there, but I honestly say LinkedIn is the place to start.

Terri Connellan: Great. I’ve certainly loved connecting with you on LinkedIn, and you’re definitely a great person to engage with, your posts themselves, but also just chatting and getting to know you. And I know many people have taken that opportunity and I encourage others to do the same.

So thanks again, Joe. It’s been a real pleasure talking with you today. And yeah, I agree. We could chat all day about all these fascinating topics. But I hope what we’ve shared will be really of interest to people and gives them some tips for going further with social media, with psychological type, with thinking about themselves. So thank you. Appreciate you spending the time chatting today. Take care.

Joe Arrigo: It’s been great. Thanks Terri.

Joe Arrigo

About Joe Arrigo

Joe Arrigo is a newbie to the professional Type space. What started as a mild interest exploded into an obsession and a coaching business. His goal is to help people find their place in the world by bringing clarity to their personality type. Joe believes that the most important aspect to self-improvement is first knowing yourself. Everything else branches out from there. If a stubborn INTJ like Joe can have a transformation due to Typology, it can certainly do the same for others. He resides primarily on Linkedin and YouTube, and tries to bridge the gap between the Old Guard and New Guard of type.

You can connect with Joe:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-arrigo/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/GhostofJung/videos

Calendly to book a time: https://calendly.com/advisr/30min

MailChimp (to get on Joe’s newsletter ) http://eepurl.com/htJ2XH 

Terri’s links to explore:

My books:

Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

Free resources:

Chapter 1 of Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

https://www.quietwriting.net/wholehearted-chapter-1

Other free resources: https://www.quietwriting.com/free-resources/

My coaching, personality type & writing programs:

Work with me

Personality Stories Coaching a personality type course + 90 minute coaching debrief

The Writing Road Map  – 6 week intensive starts 28 February with Beth Cregan

The Writing Road Trip – community writing program with Beth Cregan email list

How I fulfilled my vision to become a Personality Type Coach

Connect on social media

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/writingquietly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writingquietly

Twitter: https://twitter.com/writingquietly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terri-connellan/

personality and story podcast self-leadership + leadership

Leadership, Self-Awareness & Life Trails with Brian Lawrence

January 28, 2022

Insights, tools and strategies for being a more whole human.

Subscribe on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Amazon Music | YouTube | Stitcher | Podcast Page |

Welcome to Episode 11 of the Create Your Story Podcast on Leadership, Self-Awareness and Life Trails.

I’m joined by Brian Lawrence, Director of Life Trails Consulting and an accomplished global facilitator, Leadership Coach, MBTI Master Practitioner and EQi Master Practitioner.

We chat about Brian’s journey to leadership coaching and facilitating and his love of working with teams and individuals on self-awareness with many tools including personality type and emotional intelligence. And his recently developed program, Dancing with Your Inner Wolves, which inspires personal growth through an innovative approach to the Jungian cognitive functions. It all focuses around how we can be a more whole human.

You can listen above or via your favourite podcast app. And/or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

In this episode, we chat about:

  • Self-awareness and personality type
  • Leadership and self-leadership
  • Certifications and learning frameworks
  • Misunderstandings about introverts
  • Brian’s Dancing with Your Inner Wolves program
  • Our 8 inner wolves and becoming holistic person
  • Working with cards and tactile learning
  • And so much more!

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Welcome to Episode 11 of the Create Your Story Podcast and it’s the 28th of January as I record this. Can you believe it’s nearly the end of January? It’s super warm here in Sydney and the water is just perfect for swimming right now. I’m busy behind the scenes preparing for The Writing Road Trip Free Challenge which kicks off next week. More on that in a moment.

I’m excited to have Brian Lawrence join us for the podcast today to chat about Leadership, Self-Awareness and Life Trails, which is the name of Brian’s business and captures the essence of his work.

Brian Lawrence is the Director of Life Trails Consulting and an accomplished global facilitator and coach. He is an MBTI Master Practitioner and EQi Master Trainer and has accredited over a thousand practitioners in 7 countries over 11 years. He has designed and led numerous programmes in team development, emotional intelligence and leadership across the globe. Brian’s clients include The Warehouse Group, The West Auckland trusts, OXFAM, The Well Connected Alliance, Roche, ASB Bank, Shell, Rio Tinto and BP. He has been a leadership coach and facilitator for 18 years.

Brian and I met via our mutual interest in psychological type, particularly through the Australian Association for Psychological Type. We share a passion for wholeness and integrating aspects of personal experience, valuing and truly knowing our strengths and identifying where we can stretch. I’ve had the pleasure of attending workshops with Brian and experiencing his excellent facilitation and experiential learning approaches including recently when I attended his Dancing with Your Inner Wolves program

Today we will be speaking about Brian’s work in leadership, personality type and coaching especially as they relate to self-awareness and becoming a more whole human.

Before we head to the conversation with Brian, I want to let you know that The Writing Road Trip Free Challenge I’m hosting with my friend, writing buddy and brilliant writing teacher, Beth Cregan kicks off on Monday 31 January with 6 free 30-minute workshops over two weeks. So, sign up for our mailing list now to get all the information. The focus of the free challenge is on Writing Identity and we aim to inspire you to start from where you to create what you desire in 2022. Plus it’s all about writing with the support of a community as we know the value of this from our own experiences. Our private Facebook is open and you can download the Challenge Workbook now. We are going to have so much fun, and you’ll be inspired to engage with your writing plans and writing self in new ways and connect with others focused on writing. So, if writing is a priority for you in 2022 – whether it’s writing a book, blog posts, a course, family history, anything at all, join us. Links are in the show notes. An easy way to find them is to head to quietwriting.com/podcast and click on Episode 11.

So now let’s head into the interview with the fascinating, skilled and inspiring Brian Lawrence.

Transcript of interview with Brian Lawrence

Terri Connellan: Hello, Brian, welcome to the Create Your Story podcast.

Brian Lawrence: Thank you, Terri. It’s great to be on.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, it’s fantastic to talk with you today. So we’ve connected around personality and psychological type as members of the Australian Association for Psychological Type community. Can you provide an overview about your background, how you got to be where you are and the work you do?

Brian Lawrence: Sure. So I’ve been working in learning and development. I would say pretty much my entire life. So I started my career as a teacher and a trainee educational psychologist in Singapore. But found that teaching 8 to 11 year olds, wasn’t quite what I wanted to do. It was turning my hair gray very early in life. So I decided to move on and do a Master’s in Organizational Psychology in the UK and found my love of adult learning while I was doing that. It took a while to get around to that.

When I came back, I worked in user interface design within an IT company for a couple of years. And then finished that and went on to lecture at the Open University in cognitive psychology, and then discovered that I really wanted to work for myself. So I started a company doing leadership development for young people.

And initially I was using games like Dungeons and Dragons to spark creativity and leadership in young people. We ran that for a group of student leaders in Singapore. So that went on for about a year. And then I had the opportunity to be a learning development manager for the British Foreign and Commonwealth office. So they were starting up a group of regional training centers all around the world. So I was one of nine L and D managers to be recruited to start this training center up. So I ran learning and development around the Southeast Asian and Australasian region for four and a half years.

 And that really cemented my love of adult development and adult learning. Along the way I trained as a coach as well, as an executive coach. So I was doing a lot of internal coaching in the organization. And then I was recruited by what then was sold to the Myers-Briggs company.

So it was a little niche consulting company called Hemisphere Consulting in Singapore. And they then became the Myers-Briggs company in Southeast Asia. So I started running Myers-Briggs certification programs back in 2008. I’d been introduced to the MBTI in 1996 and I fell in love with the concept. I really enjoy ed understanding personality type. I just never had the chance to actually use it as a practitioner until I joined the foreign office and I got certified and we started using it with teams and with employees. So when the opportunity came to actually be a Myers-Briggs practitioner and a certification trainer, I jumped at it. So I was doing that for about 11 years. Trained over a thousand people, I think across Southeast Asia, Australia, New Zealand, right up until, would have been 20 19, 20 18/ 20 19. So yeah.

Terri Connellan: Amazing story. It’s lovely to hear people’s life stories and how something starts as a passion or an interest like teaching and learning, and then moving into adult learning, then moving into personal development. But sounds like development of individuals, particularly to the best of their potential is a key theme in all the work that you do.

Brian Lawrence: Absolutely. I’ve tried to keep developing my interest in both personality type and other aspects of learning and development as well over the years. So I trained as a team coach last year. So my current niche is moving into team coaching and senior leadership teams. But keeping that self-awareness piece with personality type at the center of it as its foundation.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. And I can see that leadership and promoting self-awareness and authenticity in leaders is a key focus in your work. So why is that important to you and how does self-leadership relate to leadership?

Brian Lawrence: Well, I believe leadership starts from within, and it really starts with self-awareness and leaders being able to reflect on who they are, what their strengths and blind spots are, the impact that they have on their teams, their people, their organizations, understanding their deeply held values and their principles, what those are and how those impact their teams.

So I work with both individuals and teams to create those deep insights through an understanding of who they are, what their personality is. And I find that that really creates a lot of aha moments.

To give you an example. I had a group of doctors that I worked with a few years ago. And at the end of it, one of the doctors, he was in his mid fifties, I would say. And one of his biggest insights was. Oh, I didn’t realize that other people thought differently from me. I mean, can you imagine that, going through life thinking that your way of thinking is the only way of thinking and just creating those insights is a great start to creating better leaders, I think.

Terri Connellan: And that insight that the doctor had. I think that’s such a nugget for many people, isn’t it? It might not be as clearly articulated as that for some people. But I think it’s that idea that we do tend to think, why can’t you see this? It’s obvious to me that it’s like that. And it’s our own framework of seeing things is so natural for us. We just assume everybody’s the same.

Brian Lawrence: Yeah. And a lot of people, they come out of it, going I just thought everyone was stupid .And then realizing, no, they’re actually not. In fact, there was a video recorded with a mining company in Western Australia and they interviewed the mining supervisor and she actually said that I thought everyone worked for me was actually stupid. And then after doing a personality type workshop with the team realized that they actually thought very differently from her.

Terri Connellan: And that’s that realization too, that having difference can really help you both as a person and as a leader, understanding what you don’t have, understanding what the other has and taking it on. So can you provide some insights into how you work with leaders and teams on self-awareness?

Brian Lawrence: So typically I have been running workshops, so a lot of my work was around doing one day workshop around personality type to create those insights of getting people to understand what the individual types are and how that impacts the people around them, how it impacts the way in which they communicate, the way in which they lead. And I also use it as a foundation piece in my coaching work with individuals.

So I start with the Myers-Briggs or TypeCoach, to create that awareness of who they are, what their blind spots are, what their strengths are, the particular leadership style that they might adopt and how it’s seen by other people, their peers, their direct reports. Their own managers and then start to build on that. So starting with a degree of self-awareness and building on what that self-awareness then impacts for the greater team, the greater organization.

 Along with that, I also do some work around emotional intelligence. So, starting with your personality, then emotional intelligence. So then maybe even doing a 360, like The Leadership Circle.

Terri Connellan: And you’ve got an amazing range of tools and frameworks in your toolkit that you can draw on for the work that you do. It’s really impressive to see.

Brian Lawrence: I’ve been collecting certifications, I think over the past 10 years.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, as an individual, everything you do helps yourself as well. It’s a framework of understanding that you have like a toolkit you can dip into whoever you’re working with to be able to apply that knowledge that can help someone shift.

Brian Lawrence: Well, one of my values is curiosity. So I think just being inwardly curious, and then being curious about people as well, I think has helped me work with leaders. So it just putting different pieces of that puzzle together. So every instrument, every tool that you use is a different piece of the puzzle. So the more, the more pieces you can put together, the better.

Terri Connellan: Fantastic. It must be a great experience for the people that you work with and for yourself. I think, everything we do as a person, whether it’s develop skills, gain skills, a body of work we create helps us to create our own story, doesn’t it, as we bring it together?

Brian Lawrence: And I think almost every workshop I’ve done, every certification and program I’ve done, I’ve learned as much from the participants on the program, as I hope they have learned from me as well. So I’ve grown a lot in working with such a diverse group of people over the years.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, it’s beautiful work to be in. So you’ve mentioned, Myers-Briggs and personality and psychological type as a key framework that you’ve been involved with both, as a framework you use and also as a trainer in that area. So why did you choose to specialize there and how does type help people to be more whole and self-aware?

Brian Lawrence: Like I said, when I first got introduced to type it, it kind of almost opened the door to a whole new world. And I found that that really resonated with me, understanding how I communicate, how I take in information, how I make decisions and what drives those decisions, where I get my energy from in particular being an introvert and understanding that, that’s okay.

Understanding that, no, I don’t want to go and party on a weekend. I’d rather stay in and watch a video or read a book and getting recharged that way. And realizing that a lot of people who were perceived differently, like me would actually take a lot of comfort from that. So understanding who they were and who they were is actually okay. It’s normal.

 I think that’s one of the great strengths of understanding personality type, that who you choose to be or who you are, who you are being in the world is okay. Whoever you are and being different is being different. There’s nothing wrong with it. And conveying that to people on teams, especially where you may have a couple of team members who are always perceived to be a little different, a little quirky, you know, there’s nothing wrong with you.

You’re just living differently in the world. Not only did it open up a doorway for me, but I find that it opens up a doorway for a lot of people who start to understand personality type. And it’s such a non-threatening way of working with the team as well.

I mean, there are some personality instruments, there are some psychometric instruments that can be quite judgmental. I mean, do you really want to work with a team where you’re looking at people and saying, well, your level of neuroticism is fairly high. I mean, that’s going to shut people down immediately. Instead of that, you’re saying, you have a preference for introversion. You work with your inner world world a lot more. You’re quite selective about the energy that you put out. That’s such a nice way of actually getting people to understand their place in world.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, that’s what I’ve found also with my personal experience. Same as you it opened a door for me as an introvert, INTJ preference woman. And I think also, as you said, it helps people realize why they might be a bit different. So for me, for example, as a thinking woman, I’m not the norm, you know, the majority. More women have a feeling orientation. So I think for individuals to realise whether it’s in the context of their personal life or in the context of a team.

For me in the workplace, I couldn’t always come up with ideas immediately in the meeting, or it might take me the whole meeting and I’d summarise everything that was said, because I could sort of think it through, but I wasn’t the person to get up and speak impromptu. That was not my forte. So I guess it’s just understanding why some things are easier and some things are harder.

Brian Lawrence: I think Susan Cain in her book Quiet sums it up perfectly. Isn’t it? I mean, a lot of people, women in particular, where it was women in the legal profession who felt that they were losing out on opportunities because they weren’t speaking up because they did have a preference for introversion and it’s such a cultural impact that being introverted has in a corporate atmosphere.

Terri Connellan: But it certainly seems like there’s a lot more awareness these days. People talk more openly about introversion and extroversion and understanding the different types. But I think it’s certainly a great framework for helping people to be more self-aware and understand others.

Brian Lawrence: I certainly think so.

I think there’s still a lot of misunderstanding around introversion. Just a few years ago I was asked, what’s your personality type? And I said, well, I’m an INTP, I have a preference for introversion. Oh, so you won’t be a very good facilitator then.And I said, well, that’s not necessarily the case. I mean, in my case, I know I’m an introvert. I know I have that preference for introversion, but I’ve always done extroverted things. I’ve been an actor. I’ve been on stage. I’ve been in televised school debates. And I enjoy being on stage and I enjoy facilitating.

So, I think that’s something that people still are yet to understand that being an introvert doesn’t mean that you are going to shy away from the spotlight. It might mean that. But it doesn’t mean you can’t do things that require a sort of an extraverted energy.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. I love that example. Very true. I think too, it’s that realization that the skills you have. In fact might make you a very good facilitator. That ability to listen, again, you don’t want to stereotype, but some of the preferences for introverted ways of working do mean that you’re going to be very skilled in that environment to pick up individuals, to listen, to reflect back what people are saying.

Yeah. So your recent work in this area is focused on Dancing with Your Inner Wolves. And I had the pleasure of attending a workshop with you recently on this, which I thoroughly enjoyed and am still thinking about. Can you tell us about the eight inner wolves that make up our personality and how we might use this framework you’ve created for insight and growth.

Brian Lawrence: Okay. The concept of your inner wolves came from my own interest in native American culture and the movie Dances with Wolves back in 1991 really struck me And a lot of what was done in the movie actually influenced the creation of my company Life Trails.

So, the old Cherokee proverb, you have two wolves within you. One is a Wolf of good, and one is a willful evil, and they’re both battling each other. And the one that gets expressed is the one that you feed. So I’ve used that analogy a lot in my work in personality type and talking about type dynamics during my MBTI certification programs, talking about your dominant function, the one that is most prominent within you. And the more you feed it, the more it’s expressed.

So, last year I was thinking about how I could expand that metaphor of the two wolves. And I felt well, it’s not necessarily just two wolves. If you took the idea of the eight cognitive functions that Jung has created and Myers has worked on. So, thinking, feeling, sensing, intuition as the four functions and then the introverted or extroverted energy being applied to each of those giving you eight possible functions or eight possible aspects of your personality. What I call the eight wolves or the eight heroes of your personality. So thinking through that, I thought it’s an interesting metaphor for personality type us having these eight wolves that live within us. But typically we’re only focused on our hero pre-dominant function, which kind of rules the roost, it rules the pack.

 But then we don’t usually give ourselves access to the other seven. We typically use the first two, but not the other six. And some people only use the first one. So taking that as a metaphor I thought I’ll develop it into a program around how we could develop each of those eight wolves and get access to each of those eight wolves and become a more holistic human being. So if we could access all seven in a healthy and appropriate way, it would make us a more whole human.

Terri Connellan: I love that. And what I found too, going through the workshop with you is that I love the way you’ve taken the concepts of say, Extraverted Intuition and it’s the Explorer Wolf and how, the Healer is Introverted Feeling. So for people like myself who know the concepts of the cognitive processes and even for people who don’t, I think it makes it a really accessible way of thinking differently about those cognitive functions, maybe fleshes them out in a new way. So I love that.

Brian Lawrence: There’s other researchers who’ve chosen different animals for each of the functions as well. I know a guy in Japan, he’s American and he’s created a whole role-playing game around it. He’s used a rhinoceros and a bear and a Wolf. So there’s different ways of looking at personality and it could be really fun as well. And in just making them more accessible to people.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, exactly. And the great thing we did in that workshop too, was one identify the top, the hero, but also particularly look at one or two that we’re not using some much. So it’s that idea of stretching into our non preferred areas and just practicing. If you’re an introverted person, it tends to be an extroverted type of skill.

So for my two bottom lines, I’m just looking at mine here, were Extraverted Sensing and Extraverted Feeling. And having the opportunity, even in that short time we had in the workshop to practically think about how you might consciously, a lot of it’s about consciousness, isn’t it, being aware of these things. How you might consciously practice these cognitive ways of working in your life was really valuable.

Brian Lawrence: Yeah. So I created a series of cards that initially it was to use in the live workshop. But of course now with COVID, I’ve had to think of different ways in which to present that. So, I’m thinking about virtual cards or virtual focus cards where you can pick a card if you’re doing the workshop off a whiteboard. in a program and look at it and go, okay, this is the activity I need to do.

So, I’ve placed those activities as well on three different levels. So in an easy level one activity could be doing something as simple as observing your chair. What details do you notice about your chair? That’s the Introverted Sensing, or Extraverted Sensing part of you.

There’s also leadership cards where you take a particular Wolf and you look at how that Wolf would respond to a leadership challenge. So, there’s in total about 300 to 400 cards that you could actually access for different activities.

Terri Connellan: Wow. That’s amazing. And you have this passion for developing experiential learning products. Like you’ve just mentioned like a system of cards. So tell us a bit about how this taps into your personal approach to facilitating and learning and how you feel working with tangible things helps to foster insights.

Brian Lawrence: I think that that’s always what I’ve been interested in. As a learning and development manager, I was always looking for new ways to spark learning. I’ve developed lots of different games, activities that people can actually touch, they can use to actually discuss ideas. So one of the earliest games that I had developed was called the Mayan Pyramid. So it’s a series of 40 cards with clues on them. So, you hand those cards out to a team. They each get maybe two or three cards and they put the clues together as a team to solve a problem. In this case to solve how long this pyramid was taken to be built by a group of workers. I’ve always had that interest in tactile learning to.

And, I developed a series of cards called the Pocket Personality Cards back in 2016. And that came from me being overseas. I was in Cambodia doing a workshop for Oxfam around type and change. So we were doing an MBTI workshop. I was sitting in the hotel restaurant and the waitress brought me a menu.

But the menu, wasn’t your traditional menu. It was a series of cards. So you picked out the dish that you want. The dish was on individual cards and you went and gave it to the waitress. And I said, I want the chicken And I thought that was such a simple, elegant way of ordering a meal there. If you didn’t speak English or if you didn’t speak Cambodian, it was fine. All you needed to do is pick out the card and give it to them rather than grabbing them and pointing out that particular dish. And she would take the cards and go and give it to the chef and he would cook up the meal.

And being an Introverted Thinker, Extraverted Intuitive, that got me thinking over the next few weeks and months. And I thought well, no one’s actually developed a series of cards for personality type. Okay. That would be interesting. So I started developing the Pocket Personality Cards with little tips on how to communicate or little tips on leadership or on working with teams. So I came up with three sets of cards. So one for communication, one for teams, one for leadership.

Terri Connellan: That’s fabulous. And I love too in the workshop with the Eight Inner Wolves how even though we’re online, we were able to see the cards and use them. As you said , that makes it simple, makes it accessible. And when we think of the whole body of work around cognitive functions and even each cognitive function, there’s a huge body of work out there. Lots of information. And it’s quite technical some of it, the language is quite hard, but if you can distill it. And I’m sure for you, there’s a lot of work in distilling things down to the actual cards.That’s where your introverted thinking and extroverted intuition would come in as great skills. So in a way you’ve done the thinking for us and said well, here’s a few prompts to explore. And I think that’s what makes that work so accessible.

Brian Lawrence: And actually working with an Extraverted Thinker really helped as well. So I was working with Sue Blair and looking at all of the different activities that that I created. And she said, well, that doesn’t quite fit with Extraverted Thinking, this does. So we refined those. So having a different personality type work with you really helped as well.

Terri Connellan: I love that. Do you use other cards in your work?

Brian Lawrence: I do. I use values cards as well. I think developed by Sue Langley. So I use a lot of that in the workshops that I do. So running a leadership program, for example, I might use the personality cards in the self-awareness piece and then use a value card sort.

There’s another set of cards called Points of View which was developed by a couple of Israeli psychologists and that is just a series of pictures on different cards and use that to spark awareness and insight. I find it useful to use those cards at the end of a workshop as a sort of a visual explorer to get people to articulate what leadership now means for them at the end of all this learning.

Terri Connellan: We were just talking before we came on about Roger Pearman’s recent presentation at the AusAPT Conference earlier in November. It’s November as we speak. And he had a top list of top 10 tips if you’re working with personality type, here’s what you should do if you’re serious. And one of those was about playing with cards and playing with that idea of symbols. Wasn’t it? Yeah, it was a top wisdom tip. So it’s great to see that you’ve been doing that for a long time.

Brian Lawrence: Absolutely delighted to hear Roger say that. I say you finally validated it.

Terri Connellan: That’s what I felt too. As someone who’s written about tarot, cause I use tarot a lot and talk about it in my book. It was my absolute favorite moment of the conference. And he talked about how he used cards with executives too. Not necessarily tarot cards in that case, but similar to what you do. And, that’s what I felt that sense of validation too.

Brian Lawrence: I used to use tarot cards when I was at uni actually. So moving from tarot cards and you’ve got Carol Pearson’s Archetype cards as well. And I’ve recently signed a contract with an organization who uses Jungian Archetype cards as well. Just feed that, continue to feed that. And people like playing with things. They like the tactile nature of learning as well, rather than just sitting there and listening to someone drone on. They like getting involved.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, that’s really exciting. And it’s great to hear about how your work’s evolved too over time. It’s been fascinating to connect with you around that. Absolutely. So, can you tell us about your personality type and the psychological insights you’ve gained over time that have helped you with self-leadership and personal growth?

Brian Lawrence: So my type preference is INTP. And so I’m an Introverted Thinker, I’m an analyst and I think that’s something that I’ve always…. I haven’t struggled with it. I think I was lucky enough to have parents who encourage me to just be who I was and so I really thrived in my own skin too. I did what I wanted to do. I’ve followed my career, making sure the jobs that I sought out, the jobs that I applied to, really suited my particular personality type. It didn’t mean however that I didn’t stretch outside of that.

So running my own business, for example, when I started my company in 2015, I found that I really needed to get stronger in my introverted sensing and my extroverted sensing. So, going through accounts on a weekly basis, looking at budgets, looking at scheduling. I now use a bullet journal. So I make lists of things that I need to do. That’s very introverted sensing, that’s very traditionalist.

 So learning about how I can flex into those other aspects or those other wolves has really helped me grow into myself. I think my greatest challenges are Extraverted Feeling and Introverted Feeling. So Extroverted Feeling’s my fourth function and Introverted Feeling’s my eighth function. So getting to understand the opposite side of me, to get to understand my shadow has really been quite challenging and quite eyeopening.

Terri Connellan: And did you find, as I did that stretching into that opposite is a real source of growth as you get older, particularly in midlife?

Brian Lawrence: Absolutely. And being married to an introverted feeler helps as well because you really then understand the opposite in a safe environment. And I think I bring out my extraverted feeling quite a bit in my workshops as well. I’ve been told by some of my participants, that they think I might be an extroverted feeler and definitely not. I’m glad that I’m showing some of that.

Terri Connellan: I found it very warm being in your workshop, even online with all of us all around the world. So, yeah it’s great for us to stretch into and take our strengths forward in new ways. Because when we blend that strength with what’s not so natural for us, often we can really weave some magic, can’t we?

Brian Lawrence: Absolutely.

Terri Connellan: So a question I ask all guests on the Create Your Story podcast is how have you created your story over your life time?

Brian Lawrence: That’s a good question. I think I’ve let it unfold naturally. And I’ll have to say, trust in the universe to give you what you need rather than what you want. And my wife believes very strongly in the law of attraction. I’m coming around to it, but I found that it actually has worked quite well.

For example, back when I was in the army for two and a half years and I just finished. It was my last day in the army. I had no idea what I was going to do with the rest of my life. Hadn’t had an offer to a university yet. And the day I left, I sort of, well, okay. I’ll see what happens. And a friend of mine calls me out of the blue and says, there’s this university that’s doing interviews. Do you want to come down? I said, okay. And I went and I got offered a place at university and then that chapter, that trail of my life kind of unfolded.

 So your life is a series of decisions that you make. And each decision you make gives rise to another part of your trail. So your trail kind of unfolds as you go along.

And that’s what’s happened to me as well. Moving to New Zealand was almost on the spur moment. We were on holiday in Ireland, in Spain, and we came back and my wife said, you know, I think we’ve got to move. And I said, yeah, where do you want to go? And she said, well, how about New Zealand? Oh, okay. The following year we were in New Zealand and I was wanting to start a company. I wasn’t sure what exactly I was going to do, should I apply for another job? And she said, well, why don’t you write it down, write down what you want, put it away and see what happens.

So I wrote down, I want to start a company by the middle of the year 2015. I put it in an envelope, put it away. By the middle of the year, I’d started my company. So I think letting your life unfold, but also stating what you want, is really important.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, I love that. And I think that idea of being intentional and I found a similar thing. I write my goals down for a quarter and be conscious of them, but sometimes forget exactly what I thought I would do. And then I went back and the podcast was one, and I think I had create the podcast kickoff in November. And I’d forgotten and that’s exactly what happened. Yeah. So I think it’s that combination, as you said, that unfolding and I love that your company is called Life Trails Consulting

Brian Lawrence: And it’s similar to your book as well with the spiral. And, I use the spiral in my company logo as well, and that came to me, on my trip to Ireland. I actually had this, you know, in the hour before you wake up and you’re sort of half awake and half asleep, I had this vision of a spiral and I didn’t know why. And I came downstairs to the breakfast table and I started drawing out all these spirals and thinking, okay, we’re talking about trails, we’re talking about life unfolding. And that particular day our friends were taking us to these burial mounds just outside of Dublin and on every burial mound, guess what was inscribed? The spiral.

So it was, it’s kind of mystical and the whole idea of spiral is a trail, but spiraling back to where you were and looking at the patterns that have got you there and whether or not you break out of that spiral sometimes and find a different path.

Terri Connellan: For me the spiral’s about those things, but also about revisiting, like relearning, learning more and to relate it to psychological type too is that we’re often repeating similar patterns. We’re working on our strengths. We’re still having trouble with those things that are a bit pesky for us that we can’t sort out. And we will often find ourselves having the same arguments, butting up against the same situation.

Brian Lawrence: And looking at your limiting beliefs as well.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, exactly. So all those things that come together to make that journey, which obviously we both see in a spiraling evolving, unfolding way.

Brian Lawrence: I’d love to get a hold of your book as well as a gift, actually.

Terri Connellan: Okay. Yeah. We can send you the links cause yeah, it’s available.

Brian Lawrence: Because I know someone I’d like to get it as a gift.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. Quite a few people have bought it as a gift for people. And I really love that. I think it’s that idea that people can see that there’s somebody, you know, either in a time of transition, or someone who needs to reflect deeply on that time. So I look forward to sharing it with you. The book has 15 wholehearted self-leadership tips and practices, so that’s a toolkit that I’ve developed based on my experiences. But I love to ask others to add to this toolkit we can all access what your top wholehearted self-leadership tips and practices would be.

Brian Lawrence: Be comfortable with your own skin. Be grateful every day. Understand that you can be more powerful than you think you are. And there’s this resonant power within you that if you just unlock it, you could do anything. I think those are things that I’ve learned over time. Don’t hold yourself back, speak your truth into the world.

Terri Connellan: I love that. And I think that taps into sometimes what we see on social media where we tend to see other people as experts and, you know, there’s a time for learning. But I’ve heard of procrasti-learning to where people can just keep learning but don’t own their own learning. And writing my book for me was the time of owning my learning. Is that how you, you see it too?

Brian Lawrence: That must’ve been such a growth experience though. I mean, I’ve been listening to your podcast and waking up at five in the morning and writing for 20 minutes and then having a chat and writing again, that takes a lot of discipline.

Terri Connellan: Oh, it does. Yeah. It takes a huge amount of discipline. It’s a long haul creative journey too that whole idea of writing a book. But just as you said with your being comfortable in your own skin, Owning your own stories, that unfolding you talked about, you know, it’s very much a book about unfolding through a time of major change. So, yeah, it’s certainly a big growth journey, but something that’s been really powerful for me to do exactly what you just said, which is own my own knowledge and my own learning and step into my own space as someone who can speak about transition in a meaningful way for others to help them.

Brian Lawrence: Are there more books on the way?

Terri Connellan: There’s one in draft at the moment. So, as part of the work that I did, I asked other women to tell their stories. So there’s about 24 stories that I’ve gathered over time. Partly because I was a bit tired of hearing my own voice. I wanted to hear other people’s voices. So I’ve gathered those voices together and I’m looking to publish that as another book. I went back to those stories when I was writing the book to hear how other people were negotiating similar things. And things like intuition came up time and time again, particularly when people were at a crossroads. It’s particularly then, and when challenging things happen that people start to really listen within or they actually hear voices.

Brian Lawrence: It’s a crucible moment.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. So that piece of work is something I’d like to bring into the world because I think those stories really amplify what it means to be wholehearted in different ways and they’re all different personalities of course so you get to see different aspects.

Brian Lawrence: I’ll look forward to that.

Terri Connellan: Thank you. So thanks so much for being part of the podcast Brian sharing about your story. It’s been fascinating to learn more about you and I hope many of those ideas that were shared will inspire others in different ways or spark some thoughts and some trails to go down for themselves.

So where can people find out more about you and your work on this?

Brian Lawrence: Well, first of all, thank you Terri for having me on your podcast, it’s been really exciting. It’s been really fun talking to you and learning about your own journey as well through the book. So if people want to find out more about me or the inner wolves, my email is brian@lifetrails.co.nz or you can go to my website, www.lifetrails.co.nz. I have a Facebook page as well, Life Trails Consulting. And I think I’ll be starting off a separate Facebook page for the Inner Wolves soon.

Terri Connellan: Fantastic. Yeah, we can pop those links in the show notes so people can head off and explore a bit about the inner wolves cause I’ve found it really fascinating and personally inspiring. So thanks again. Great to chat.

Brian Lawrence

About Brian Lawrence

Brian Lawrence is the Director of Life Trails Consulting and an accomplished global facilitator and coach. He is an MBTI Master Practitioner and EQi Master Trainer and has accredited over a thousand practitioners in 7 countries over 11 years. He has designed and led numerous programmes in team development, emotional intelligence and leadership across the globe. Brian’s clients include The Warehouse Group, The West Auckland trusts, OXFAM, The Well Connected Alliance, Roche, ASB Bank, Shell, Rio Tinto and BP. He has been a leadership coach and facilitator for 18 years.

You can connect with Brian:

Website: Life Trails Consulting

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Lifetrailsconsulting

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianlaw/

Email: brian@lifetrails.co.nz

Links to explore:

My books:

Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

Free resources:

Chapter 1 of Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

https://www.quietwriting.net/wholehearted-chapter-1

Other free resources: https://www.quietwriting.com/free-resources/

My coaching & programs:

Work with me

Personality Stories Coaching

The Writing Road Trip – a community program with Beth Cregan – kicking off Jan 2022

Connect on social media

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/writingquietly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writingquietly

Twitter: https://twitter.com/writingquietly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terri-connellan/

creativity love, loss & longing podcast

Creating, grief coaching and pro-ageing with Valerie Lewis

January 13, 2022

Living a creative, easeful and positive life after loss

Subscribe on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Amazon Music | YouTube | Stitcher | Podcast Page |

Welcome to Episode 9 of the Create Your Story Podcast on Creating, Grief Coaching & Pro-Ageing.

I’m joined by Valerie Lewis, Grief & Loss Coach, Lifestyle Model, 60+ Pro-Ager and Creative Dabbler.

We chat about creativity as a central life value and practise and how it helps in so many ways including dealing with grief and loss. And about being a grief coach and 60plus pro-ager!

You can listen above or via your favourite podcast app. And/or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

In this episode, we chat about:

  • Life after tragedy
  • Embracing creativity
  • Choosing not to climb the corporate ladder
  • Dealing with loss
  • Making transitions later in life
  • Grief coaching + supporting others
  • Creativity + intuitive art
  • Being a 60plus pro-ager
  • Becoming a model
  • And so much more!

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Welcome to Episode 9 of the Create Your Story Podcast and it’s the 13th of January as I record this and suddenly we are nearly mid way through January! we’ve had a lot of rain here in Sydney so it’s humid and the gardens are going wild. But I’ve been able to swim and enjoy the mid-summer temperatures. I’ve also been reflecting on 2021 via Susannah Conway’s Unravel Your Year 2022 Workbook this week and also reflecting further on my 2022 word of the year (to be revealed soon). Plus I’ve been planning and preparing for the Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club where we focus in on Chapter 1 of Wholehearted and the Companion Workbook next week together. As well as preparing for The Writing Road Trip with Beth Cregan which kicks off with a free challenge on 31 January. So there are lots of exciting new things this year and I hope you’ll join me in one of these offerings! Links in the show notes on Quiet Writing at QuietWriting.com/podcast and find the link to this episode.

I’m thrilled to have my friend Valerie Lewis from Visualise and Bloom join us for the podcast today to chat about Creating, Grief Coaching and Pro-Ageing.

Valerie Lewis is a multi-passionate 60plus pro ager. Through grief coaching and personal growth facilitation, she supports and empowers those who are lost and confused with the direction they want to take following a significant life event that has impacted them and their sense of self. Her interests include being an intuitive reader, Reiki and crystals practitioner and avid creative dabbler.

Valerie and I met through a project of a mutual connection Julia Barnickle, ‘What if life were meant to be easy?’ Sadly, Julia passed away early in 2021 as a result of metastatic breast cancer. We connect today remembering Julia and with gratitude to her for connecting us. And it’s fitting that we remember Julia’s message of living a creative, easeful and positive life even in the face of or after difficult circumstances, as this is the focus of the conversation today.

Valerie has been a coaching client in the Sacred Creative Collective group coaching program. We share many similar experiences including moving through deep grief and our passions – including a love of creative expression in many forms and intuitive practices such as tarot as important self-leadership tools.

Today we speak about creativity and how we respond and learn to move through tragedy, loss, deep grief and challenging transitions including ageing. We have fun in this conversation but we also traverse some tragic and sensitive topics so I wanted to let you know this upfront. We consider creativity and intuition as sources of healing and growth and how they support us in making life transitions. Valerie’s story is an incredibly inspiring one especially around how she creates as a central focus and value, has become a grief coach supporting others and is a passionate 60-plus pro-ager.

So now let’s head into the interview with the wonderfully inspiring, creative and multi-passionate Valerie Lewis!

Transcript of interview with Valerie Lewis

Terri Connellan: Hello, Valerie. And welcome to the Create Your Story Podcast. Thank you so much for your connection and for your support of Quiet Writing.

Valerie Lewis: Thanks for having me, Terri. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Terri Connellan: I’m so looking forward to chatting with you today. We’ve connected in many ways around creativity, transition, grief, coaching and more. So it’s great to be able to share conversations on those topics today with others. Can you start us off by providing an overview about your background, how you got to be where you are and the work that you do now?

Valerie Lewis: Wow. Where do I start? Well, I’m originally from the north of England, south Yorkshire, and I moved to London, in the late eighties, following the loss of my only child, my daughter, through manslaughter and the resultant breakdown of my marriage to her mentally ill father. As you can imagine, that was quite a traumatic time. So I would say, that was the main reason why I moved to London basically to start a new life cause I thought, well, I’ve got nothing to lose. And before my daughter died, I had instigated starting a degree because I left school with minimal qualifications.

So it was almost like something that I needed to prove to myself. So I had embarked on the initial stages of the degree. And then after my daughter died, the tutor that I had at the time, he was very encouraging. He said, well, why don’t you apply to one of the universities or polytechnics as they were called. And study that way rather than doing it as I was going to do through the open university. In those days you received the manuals through post and then you do your assignments and work and then send them off to the tutor to mark.

So I applied and I was accepted at Middlesex Polytechnic and ended up moving down to London to do my four year degree. And, in some ways that helped me, that was a tremendous help. It gave me something to focus on and channel my energies in. And it was whilst doing the degree, a friend brought me a book. I made friends with three women at university, and we’re still friends to this day. And one of them brought me a book called Feel the Fear and do it Anyway. And you could say that started the journey of self discovery, self-development, finding out more about who I was.

Life continued. I got a job. One of my sisters had already moved down. My other two sisters moved down and then they eventually ended up moving back with their families and to buy their own homes because it was cheaper in Sheffield. And I’ve remained in London as has my youngest sister. Through that time, I worked and there was a point at which I think it was in my mid thirties. I don’t know if you want to call it a quarter-life crisis or something. Cause I worked with engineers as their admin officer and I remember looking at them absorbed in their work. And when it was time to go home, I used to think, aren’t they going home? They just seemed content to stay there in the office.

And, I just remember thinking, I don’t want to do this, you know, thinking, well, where do I want to go? I did a post-graduate course, the Diploma in Management Studies, because I thought I’m in an administrative field. Maybe that’s the direction that I want to go in. And I remember thinking to myself, well, I don’t want to trap myself. I don’t want to just focus on this. And I think it was through reflecting on who I was. Where did I want to go? I remember thinking, realizing that actually I needed to be creative because that was what fed me. And, I’d kind of neglected that. I’d always been creative. I kind of like neglected that because I was studying and basically adapting to life in London.

And so I started getting back into being creative, making cards. Then I discovered salt dough modeling and got into that. And one of my other sisters she’s quite creative too. So we used to get together and, when her children were young, the schools would have craft fairs. So we’d book a stall and we’d have maybe have a table together. She’d make her own stuff and I’d make my stuff.

And I thought I enjoy this. I thought I don’t want to be trapped in a job where I’m working all these long hours. I want to have some time away from that, where I can do some of the things that I want to do. That’s basically how I’ve been throughout the past 30 years if you like.

Sometimes I felt a bit conflicted about it because you see your colleagues climbing the ladder in one of the fields they’re in. And obviously earning more money. I did get a promotion. I went for promotion and my pay jumped quite substantially. And I felt comfortable with that because one of the things I realized after my daughter died, I remember thinking to myself, you could have all the money in the world and in some ways it’s kind of meaningless if people that you care for are not here anymore. So in some ways I’m not materialistic in that sense. I like to have nice things. I like to wear nice things. And I like to be able to have my books around me and makeup and eat nice food. But having a lot of money is not my main goal. Feeling fulfilled is more important to me, more meaningful to me. Does that make sense, Terri?

Terri Connellan: It does. Absolutely. So, thanks for that snapshot of your life over many years, and what’s important to you. I think that what comes through strongly is your values and how you want to live your life. So we’ll explore more about that as we go through our conversation today. So thank you for that. So we’ve both shared a major transition in your case from corporate life to a more creatively focused life. So can you describe what that transition’s been like for you and how long it took and the main turning points?

Valerie Lewis: That happened last January. In some ways I saw it coming because for the past few years at work there’d been lots of changes, the constant restructuring. My role, if you like became less than what it used to be. It got less stressful. Certain aspects of it, the nicer bits, if you like, the more creative bits of it were taken away and given to another department. And I remember thinking, me and my colleagues thinking, this is strange, something’s going on in the background, you know? And, the restructure that they had before we were told our jobs were going to be moved up north, it happened with one of the teams. They were restructured. And, I think a couple of people were made redundant and the other team basically transferred up north. So that’s why the two people were made redundant from that. And we thought, well, this is odd, if they’ve moved part of our department up north, what does that mean for us?

So in some ways it was almost like you think it’s going to happen at some stage. And, I actually welcomed it. So when it came, it wasn’t a complete shock.

I wasn’t devastated because I thought, oh, I’m approaching 60. I think it’s time. It felt as if it was time for me to be doing something different, something more meaningful, something that I had more control over. So the only thing that I knew that I would mentally have to adjust to was the lack of consistent income. Because obviously, when you’re working, you’ve got an income coming in every month and you know how much is coming. But if you’re not getting that income, you’ve got to create it yourself. So I knew that would be a challenge, but I thought, well, I’m up for it.

Terri Connellan: Excellent. So, sounds like you knew the transition was coming, so you had some time to mentally prepare and perhaps practically prepare for it. And I think that helps too. Certainly for my own transition, it was quite similar. I could see that writing was on the wall. You could see things were coming. And, for me, I started to make a plan for what my life might look like when that time came. So I think that helps as we move through and change. It’s interesting you mentioned that you made that conscious decision in your thirties, not to climb the corporate ladder so that you had space for creative interests. So how do you feel about that decision now? Was that a good decision?

Valerie Lewis: It’s hard to say. I mean, other people might, well, I don’t think anybody else sort of really looks at it. It’s more about me, isn’t it? There are occasions when I think, oh, maybe if I’d stayed in the job and become this, I might’ve been head of this. And then I think, no, this is the road I chose, you know, so I’m happy with it. And in some ways doing a lot of the things that I’ve done feeds into what I’m doing now.

Terri Connellan: So tell us about what you’re doing now.

Valerie Lewis: I certified as a coach. I’ve been jewellery making. So in some ways I’ve had a taste of self-employment, even though I was employed, if that makes sense and earning little bits of money, pockets of money. So it’s not something that’s totally alien to me. I think that I can use my creativity in my coaching, and in other ways to help me achieve an income.

Terri Connellan: I often talk about Elizabeth Gilbert’s line about the long runway, where we’re preparing along the way, perhaps many years before for what we end up, wanting to do that’s important to us. Does that relate to you?

Valerie Lewis: Yeah, I think so. I don’t think you realise it at the time. Do you? Because I look at other people, I look at my sister, for example, who’s an executive coach and she climbed the career ladder. And when she was made redundant, when she started to think about what it was she could do, she realised that one of the things that she’d enjoyed whilst she was employed was coaching others. So she’s taken that aspect and also got trained, did a Masters in Coaching Psychology. And is using that and drawing from her skills in a corporate or in the civil service, if you like. So I think we do draw on our skills, I’m sure in what you’re doing, you’re doing the same, aren’t you?

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. And as you were talking, I was thinking of my own experiences and your sister’s and your own, there are threads that we value that we go back to over time. And often as we’re getting older, we start to stitch them together in different ways. And I think that’s a really exciting part of our journey. Fantastic. So do you want to tell us about what your life looks and feels like now?

Valerie Lewis: It’s kind of like, I’m more in charge of it. Self-leadership that word that you introduced me to. I feel very much my own person. There’s a sense of freedom, if that makes sense. I’m much more at peace with myself. I feel as if I’m more in tune with my own values and I’m not going into work and having to do things that conflict a little bit with how I think or feel.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. So you really have put into practice the things that are important to you, that self-leadership, creativity, embracing who you are. It’s been a real joy to connect with you and to learn from you too and share our experiences as we’ve moved along our road.

So you mentioned, earlier about the tragic death of your daughter and only child and your Wholehearted Story that you wrote for Quiet Writing, The Silent Whispers of my Mind, you share your story and what happened, the impact upon you. Can you explain or share with us what you learned from moving through and on from such incredibly difficult circumstances?

Valerie Lewis: At the time, I wasn’t sure about what I’d learned and I remember sort of thinking. Am I strong? Am I coping with this? And it wasn’t until I volunteered with, I don’t know if you’ve heard of Great Ormond Street Hospital for Sick Children? I volunteered. They have a helpline, the child death helpline. I think it might be called something different now. But I applied to volunteer for that as a bereaved parent. And it was offering emotional support to basically anybody who was impacted by the death of a child, whether they were the parent, the grandparent, the aunt, the teacher, whoever. Perhaps they were feeling upset or traumatized. It was a free helpline, so they could call the helpline and just pour out their feelings.

And we were there as a volunteer to listen and it was through listening to their stories, it made me realize that I had come a long way and that I was actually quite resilient and emotionally strong.

And I learnt that, I mean, it’s a bit cliche, that there are more questions than there are answers and that sometimes we just have to accept that we can’t know the answers to everything as hard as it is. Because that used to probably torment me in the early days. Why, why, why? And there were certain answers that satisfied me so much. And then I’d want to go beyond that and think, well, no one can tell me why.

I know why she died. I know what was wrong with my ex-husband. I know those sort of medical reasons why. But in the bigger scheme of things, it’s almost like well why was it her time? Why did she go then? And I don’t think anybody can give me an answer to that. So I’ve had to learn to accept that’s just how life is, we don’t know when we’re going to go. Sometimes we have signs, like if you’re ill terminally ill, then you know, but you don’t know necessarily why you became terminally ill, what led up to that? So there’s lots of things that we don’t know, we will never know. And we can’t know. And we just have to come to terms with that or else we’d go mad.

 I’d also learnt how important it is to have a wall of support around you. It’s so important because, I don’t think I’m speaking out of turn here with the helpline when I say that there were people who didn’t have that support. And they were really struggling. They had no one to turn to apart from the helpline and I think just knowing that there are people around you can help to keep you, make you feel emotionally supported. And sometimes in the practical sense as well.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. I think the points you’ve raised are just so important particularly that what we learn or the experiences we go through, grief is really a journey over time. That’s certainly something I’ve experienced with the grief that I’ve experienced in my life. And I think you conveyed that beautifully in The Silent Whispers of my Mind. Just that horrible shock when something as terrible as that happens and how we start to make our way through the early days. And then over time. You talk about from fragmented to wholehearted. Yeah. So, thank you for sharing that. And I think the fact that you were able to volunteer to help others helped you realize how much you’d learned is a really powerful story, too.

Valerie Lewis: Thank you. And something else that I learned was that really there’s only, you can decide what your values are. Because I think sometimes when we go through difficult times, it does make us reflect on what’s important to us or not. And really no one else can decide for you.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely.

Valerie Lewis: Have you found that to be?

Terri Connellan: I have. My brother passed away tragically. So, I went through a difficult time and that’s the time that I went back to my creativity, which is my number one value similar to you. And I think the loss of someone so special and so loved and in tragic circumstances, particularly, yeah, it does. It just makes you go back to those places and I think you look at your life in a different way.

So in your work that you do now, you take those experiences to coach others, which is really beautiful that you’re able to take the hard won learning and experiences that you’ve had to be able to support others. So can you tell us about your coaching in this area and how you support people experiencing grief?

Valerie Lewis: Well, grief coaching, if you like, would be seen as a niche or a specialization within life coaching. I think it’s quite new. It’s basically aimed at individuals who’ve experienced loss, whether it’s a death or non-death related and need support and guidance on their grief journey. As you know, coaching is about moving forward. With grief, you’ve got that additional aspect of somebody who may be still going through the various stages of grief. They may still be a little bit hurt, a bit angry, in disbelief.

So grief coaching is also providing practical support using many of the same coaching tools, common to life coaching, as well as providing emotional support through creation of a safe and supportive space for the client to feel that they can heal And that they can express their feelings around grief without judgment.

So there’s a similar way. It is coaching but what I found is that in terms of goal setting, they’ve got to be gentle goals. Very small goals. They may have a big goal, but really with a lot of people who are going through grief, it’s just creating small goals to help them get through the day.

And I find that self-care comes into it quite a lot. So that’s one of the areas that I have tended to focus on with people going through grief. What can they do to be compassionate with themselves, to love themselves, to nurture themselves? What little steps can they take and turn those into goals and actions until they feel strong enough to tackle the bigger goals.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. So that’s a real form of that self-leadership we talked about before is taking control or taking care of what you can in a very traumatic, often very traumatic situation. And what’s the pathway to grief coaching, obviously personal experience of grief is…

Valerie Lewis: Yeah, personal experience and I came across the Institute of Life Coach Training. They’re an American organization. I came across them a couple of years ago and thought about it and then put it from my head like I do with a lot of things that are intuitive and I kept getting pulled back to it. And in terms of thinking about what niche I wanted to focus on, before that I’d looked at working with women who were midlife and who were looking to reinvent themselves. But then I started to think, what can I do with my experience of grief or what I’ve been through? And this is where I discovered this course on the internet and it kept coming back to me. I think it was once I knew that I was going to be made redundant, I decided right, I’m going to sign up for this course.

Because I just felt that I needed some structure. I needed some support around that. So, I mean, I thought I’d been through my own experience, but I need this extra. You know, how do you coach somebody? But as I said, we draw on very much the same sorts of tools as we do as we use in life coaching. It’s just this other additional element of supporting somebody, being there, and creating this safe space for them. And knowing that you’re going to be dealing with somebody who might be a bit fragile and also knowing within that when to refer somebody, , when to be able to say, well, perhaps this person needs more than what I can actually offer them. And it’s counseling that they should be receiving or need to get in touch with.

Terri Connellan: It’s very important work. And I think for many of us, the life experiences, what happens to us, the skills we gain, insight we gain is often what we channel into coaching isn’t it? It’s often a challenging journey, but I think the wisdom that we gain from our experiences, the insight and the tools that we develop are so important to pass on to others. So it’s great that you’re doing the work in this area that will help so many people.

Valerie Lewis: Thank you.

Terri Connellan: So creativity, obviously a very important part of your world. It’s been a touchstone for you over time and more recently you shared in your piece, The Silent Whispers of my Mind, how intuitive abstract painting has been a big part of your journey. So how has creativity been a source of growth, expression and insight for you?

Valerie Lewis: I would say, I’ve been creative in some shape or form ever since I was a child. I think it’s just a natural part of me. It’s something I turn to whether I’m happy or sad. It just helps me. I find that being creative is something I can lose myself in. Whether this taps into being an introvert, I don’t know. But I like to sometimes go into my own little world and shut out everything else that’s going on around me. And I find that obviously you can do that when you’re working on a piece, you’re doing something creative.

And I often find that in the act of being creative, and it’s silent around you, or you might be a person who likes music playing, you can ruminate, you can think, you can think more clearly. And if something’s bothering you, sometimes you find that the answers come to you.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And I’m sure it can be the same for introverts and extroverts, but I think introverts definitely draw energy from that time alone and that creative space. So yeah, it sounds to me your personality type, which I know is introverted. INFP – you have a preference for introversion, intuition, feeling and perceiving. It would make sense that a tool like creativity, whether it’s painting or jewelry or some of the things you’ve mentioned provides a vehicle to create a quiet space where you can energize and make sense of things.

So your intuition is also something you share a lot about in The Silent Whispers of my Mind. What I found fascinating in that piece is how you tracked through learning to listen to your inner voice over time. So can you share us with us more about learning to listen to your intuition and how it’s guided you? Cause it’s not often talked about, is it, intuition?

Valerie Lewis: No, it’s still something that I find hard to articulate because it’s abstract, isn’t it? You know, you can’t see it. And it is different for everybody. You know, you look back on things and you think, well, what helped me, and then it’s just being aware that there were certain times when I seemed to know what I was doing, I felt as if I was actually being guided And I suppose some people might say you know, it’s God. And I think, well, it could be God and then over the years, having different experiences when you think that’s what they call your intuition. Like a silent voice or a sense. It’s like your body knows the right thing to do. Something’s baffling you or confusing you, and you’re weighing the pros and cons and then out of the blue, when you’re doing something totally different an answer comes into your head or you’re doing something and you get a reaction in your body.

And it’s through experiencing that. And then learning when I experienced that, that means I’ve got to listen to that. And just learning to be aware of those sensations. It’s learning to be quiet and still, and just being in the moment. And I think being creative helps you do that. I’ve heard people say that running, for example, does that for them, you know, going for a run, clears the cobwebs away and they’re in that moment. And maybe if they’ve had a problem they’d been churning turning over in their heads, they’re getting clarity in that moment.

So there’s definitely something to be said about learning to be still. Shutting out everything else around you and really being in that moment. So for me being creative is like a kind of mindful meditation. And I suppose in some way that that’s where the abstract art came in and that was kind of a mindful meditation. I don’t know what I’m going to paint. I just have these paints in front of me and I start doing shapes and ideas come to my head. Oh, that represents so-and-so. That means so and so, but initially I might not know what it is. I want to get down on paper.

Terri Connellan: I think it’s fascinating that abstract intuitive art was what you were felt very drawn to. It’s obviously something that has called you over time. And when you describe your creativity, the power of it, intuition, it seems to bring all the pieces together. So that’s perfect.

I love that you described yourself as a 60 plus pro ager, Valerie. That’s great. I love that term. What does that mean for you? Tell us a bit about that.

Valerie Lewis: I think for me as I approached 60. I thought my gosh. Am I still middle-aged? And then I actually had to Google it to see what years middle age encaptured. And I thought, well, I’m at the tail end of middle-aged. And it was like looking at older relatives around me and thinking, there’s a part of you, that’s a little bit fearful about getting older and that term to me, it helps me allay those about being over 60 and getting older. It’s about me accepting that, yes, I am getting older. I can’t hide that and really, I don’t want to. I think it’s something to actually be proud of, because not everybody, you know, my daughter died at seven. She didn’t make it to 61. My mum’s mum, I think she died at 63, my mum’s 84 so it’s actually something to be really, really proud of.

And regardless of what society says, I think we’ve got more freedom. We’ve been allowed the opportunity for more self-expression than our parents’ generation, if you like. And I think we should take advantage of that to the full. We should create our own rules, dress, how we want to dress. If you want to dye your hair, dye it. If you don’t want to dye your hair don’t. And live life as fully as you can, within your capabilities.

 I look around me and there’s people my age and a bit younger having hip replacements and, and dying from cancer and things like that. So I think to myself, life’s short. I think you’re just aware of your own mortality when you reach this age. So you think to yourself, I’m not just going to sit here and sort of accept that I’m getting older. I want to live my life. And so being pro age, it’s about accepting that you’re a certain age but not letting that age, define you or defeat you.

Terri Connellan: Beautiful. Yeah. And I was fascinated to hear that you did what I also did recently, which was look at middle age and the span, because I was asking the same questions recently because I just turned 60 not long ago. I was thinking, oh, am I still middle aged? Or am I old age now? Or what am I? And I did the same thing.

I was fascinated to find that I could see middle-aged, which is that point. And then there didn’t seem to be a term so much for after. So yeah, I do like that pro ager. I was listening to a podcast, The Magnificent Mid-life Podcast, and there was a guest on there who talked about being age-full, which is nice too. I love that. And, I certainly agree with you about celebrating all that, we’ve learned the sharing of that with others, which in your journey is really important. So yeah, I love your attitude. It’s fantastic.

Valerie Lewis: This is where the modeling comes in.

Terri Connellan: Yes I’ve seen on Instagram. Is that a new career for you?

Valerie Lewis: I wouldn’t say it’s a career, it’s a form of income but it’s another form of being creative if you like.

And it’s also about in a way me celebrating, being the age I am because if you look back 10, 15 years ago, who would have thought that somebody in their sixties will be doing modeling. But I think there’s more of us reaching a certain age. And I think companies are appreciating that their customers want to see a greater representation of people who look like them.

And so this is the right time for me to be doing this because I am not what you would call sort of fashion model. I don’t look like a fashion model. I’m not the right height. I’m not the right build for it, but I might look like somebody who you’d see in the street or your next door neighbor. So that’s basically what I’m doing. Lifestyle modelling and it’s quite fun. It’s something different and it’s fun.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. The pictures you shared on Instagram. I was just blown away. I found it so inspiring. It was fantastic to see. So yeah. Be interested to hear more about it as you get more into your modeling.

So there’s a couple of questions that I’m asking all the guests on this podcast, being the Create Your Story Podcast. It’s a big question, but it’s really just seeing what comes to mind from the question. So how have you created your story over your lifetime?

Valerie Lewis: That’s an interesting one. It’s almost like there hasn’t been a rule book to follow. So in many ways circumstances have shaped some of my story. And other aspects of my story, I’ve taken charge and shaped myself. For example, not climbing a career ladder when that’s something that society expects of you, if you like. I chose not to do that.

Some of the creative things I’m doing, such as modeling and what is interesting is meeting other people who are of the same age group, who have decided to do that as well and thinking, well, you know, this is fascinating.

So my story has been shaped by I suppose obviously my parents and people of their generation, my upbringing, being a black person in a mainly white society. That’s helped to shape it. Being a female. In two of my jobs, I worked in a more male dominated environment.

 And also the circumstances I’ve been through have helped to shape my story. And also I think I’m a little bit eccentric and I’ve got a strong streak of independence. There’s always something in me that slightly wants to dance to my own tune. So that’s helped to shape my story. I’m still continuing to shape my story.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. That’s great. It’s lovely to hear all the different aspects that have shaped you, your personality, circumstances and how you’ve responded to them as well. Thank you for sharing that. So wholehearted self-leadership is obviously part of creating your story and a key part. And I’ve shared some tips in my book, but I’m interested for people on the show to share their top wholehearted self-leadership tips and practices, especially for women. So what comes to mind for you as the top tips?

Valerie Lewis: I think the main thing that I would say is work on being true to you. Who are you, or who do you want to be? And that might mean a lot of self-reflecting, digging deep within yourself. I would say a good starting point is looking at your values. What are the things that make life meaning to you or could make life meaningful to you? The values that you hold – are they yours or the values of others? What do you dislike about yourself or what do you dislike about other people? Ultimately, are you living your life for you or for others?

And I think that sort of question becomes more important the older you get, especially as you reach middle age. Maybe if you’ve had a family and your life has been focused on your family, I think you can lose yourself, whoever you were. So at some point, I think most of us, you start thinking about who am I, what am I here for? What gives me joy? And that’s where the self-reflecting comes in. And as I say, looking at your values, I think that’s a good starting point because your values change over time, don’t they? And you might be holding on to things that are not helping you anymore. It’s dragging you down.

Terri Connellan: I think that’s great. I think that question about it with your living your life for yourself or for others and sometimes it’s that overlay of family with its family values, cultural values or corporate values, it’s almost like we have to clear them off sometimes just to work out what’s important for us. I relate to that, like a clarifying process. Beautiful. I love that. And that idea of working on being who you are, who you want to be, and what gives you joy, I think a beautiful tips too for women to take to heart. So, thank you so much for our conversation Valerie today. It’s been so heart-warming, so inspiring and a lot of fun. So thank you so much for sharing your story. Can you tell us where people can find out more about you and your work online?

Valerie Lewis: Okay. My website, Instagram and Facebook under Visualise and Bloom. And LinkedIn under Valerie A Lewis and people can sign up to receive my periodic newsletter. I say periodic because I’m not one of these that sends out a newsletter every month. It’s more like once a quarter. So, if they sign up for my newsletter on my website, I’ve just created a guided meditation. They can receive a free downloadable copy of it. It’s called the Violet Cloud Guided Meditation for Difficult Times.

Terri Connellan: Perfect. That’s a beautiful gift for people who connect with you. So, we’ll pop all those links in the show notes. I’ll also make sure the link to your wholehearted story, The Silent Whispers of my Mind and the piece you shared on creative transition too is there.

Valerie Lewis: Oh, it’s been a pleasure, Terri. Thank you so much.

Terri Connellan: Thanks so much Valerie.

Valerie Lewis

About Valerie Lewis

Valerie Lewis is a multi-passionate 60plus pro ager. Through grief coaching and personal growth facilitation, she supports and empowers those who are lost and confused with the direction they want to take following a significant life event that has impacted them and their sense of self. Her interests include being an intuitive reader, Reiki and crystals practitioner and avid creative dabbler.

You can connect with Valerie at her website Visualise and Bloom or via Instagram @visualiseandbloom 

Newsletter sign-up: Blooming news + free guided meditation

You can also read Valerie’s Wholehearted Story, The Silent Whispers of my Mind and an interview with Valerie on her transition journey: Sacred Creative Stories of Transition.

Links to explore:

Book Club: Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club – open for enrolment now, closing soon – join us for January 19/20 book club start.

My books:

Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

Free resources:

Chapter 1 of Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

https://www.quietwriting.net/wholehearted-chapter-1

Other free resources: https://www.quietwriting.com/free-resources/

My coaching:

Work with me

Personality Stories Coaching

The Writing Road Trip – a community program with Beth Cregan – kicking off Jan 2022

Connect on social media

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/writingquietly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writingquietly

Twitter: https://twitter.com/writingquietly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terri-connellan/

personality and story podcast work life

Shaping a Multi-Passionate Life with Meredith Fuller

January 6, 2022

Subscribe on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Amazon Music | YouTube | Stitcher | Podcast Page |

Welcome to Episode 8 of the Create Your Story Podcast on Shaping a Multi-Passionate Life.

I’m joined by Meredith Fuller, Psychologist, Author, Media Spokesperson, Career Change Specialist and Theatre Maker.

We chat about shaping a multi-passionate life in practical terms! There are so many tips for living a full, wise and creative life without overwhelm.

You can listen above or via your favourite podcast app. And/or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

In this episode, we chat about:

  • Making transitions from work or a life we don’t love
  • Tools for tapping into what is not conscious
  • Living a full, multi-passionate life in practical terms.
  • Meredith’s book Working with Bitches
  • My book Wholehearted & how Meredith is working with it with clients
  • Thinking and Feeling preferences in women
  • Choosing projects wisely
  • How personality insights can help
  • How tarot insights can help
  • Setting boundaries
  • And so much more!

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Welcome to Episode 8 of the Create Your Story Podcast and it’s the 6th of January as I record this and we’re firmly into the new year. It’s warm and humid here in Sydney with lots of rain, so it’s a perfect time for setting intentions and goals for 2022 and also reflecting on my word of the year. I shared about my word of the year for 2021, Author in the past week on my blog. So pop over to see how that shaped up over the year and some tips for applying this learning in your life! More on my 2022 word soon as I ponder on all that it might mean!

I’m thrilled to have my friend Meredith Fuller join us for the podcast today to chat about Shaping a Multi-passionate Life. You might remember Meredith featured in Episode 3 of the podcast as part of the first Wholehearted virtual book launch.

Meredith’s concurrent careers have included author, playwrightcolumnist & media commentatortalkback radio guesttheatre director & producer, TV co-host, actorpsychological profiler and trainer. As a psychologist in private practice, providing counselling and career development to individuals and groups, she has also consulted to organisations on professional development and interpersonal skills for over 40 years. She ran a university careers counselling service for 12 years and has been a sessional lecturer in postgraduate courses in vocational psychology at several universities.

Meredith and I met via our mutual interest in psychological type as members of the Australian Association for Psychological Type about 4 years ago. From that we have discovered many shared interests and passions. Today we will be chatting about the value of psychological type and personality insights in making change, looking at how tarot can help, my Wholehearted book, Meredith’s book ‘Working with Bitches’ and writing and creative living. One of the things we particularly chat about is being multi-passionate and having a number of projects. There is some fabulous advice about how to make wise choices about where to focus and how to practically structure your life so you don’t get overwhelmed or burn out.

A reminder before we head into the podcast about the Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club as a focus for 2022. One of the things Meredith mentions in the podcast is about the value of community and it’s something that’s integral to my life and work. If you’re looking for community, support and accountability for living a more wholehearted life, join me and a wonderful group of women gathering for the Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club to read and work through my book Wholehearted and the Companion Workbook together through-out 2022. Part book club, part group coaching, with weekly accountability and prioritising check-ins, it’s a gentle, focused and value-packed way to keep wholehearted living front of mind and make progress to the transitions and transformations you desire in the coming year.

We start on Chapter 1 of Wholehearted in mid-January so it’s not too late to join us now and there is a space for you. People in the group are already commenting on how the accountability is helping them to do things they might otherwise have given up on! So head to the Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club.

You’ll also hear more about Wholehearted in this episode and how it can support you. Meredith wrote a fantastic review of the book you can read too.

So now let’s head into the interview with the fabulously multi-skilled and multi-passionate Meredith Fuller!

Transcript of interview with Meredith Fuller

Terri Connellan: Hi Meredith, welcome to the Create Your Story podcast. And thank you so much for your support of me and my book Wholehearted.

Meredith Fuller: I’m delighted with it.

Terri Connellan: Thank you. It’s great to chat with you today. So to kick off, can you tell people a little about you and the roles that you focus on in your work in the world?

Meredith Fuller: So, I’ve been a psychologist for over 40 years. I have a private practice where I’ve seen many thousands of individuals who come for career developmental or personal growth, and I’ve also spent a number of years working in organizations on organizational issues, whether that’s leadership, team communication, mainly it’s interpersonal issues.

And I also write plays that I direct and produce at our venue, and I assist my husband with his short documentaries. So, we’ve got a very psychological focus on that. So essentially what I do is assist people to be the best they can be. And I mainly find that people are often in a position of distress. It could be interpersonal problems with people at work, problems in relationships, a poor fit, and they need some assistance in moving towards whatever their life stage is.

And it’s interesting at the moment, there’s been obviously quite a lot of people who are looking at what next? I’m in my fifties, I’m in my sixties. What now? So there’s a very strong theme there. And the other thing that we’ve been doing for the past two years because of the pandemic issue is working with a lot of people using Zoom to do group sessions or one-on-one sessions.

So, I guess what happens for me is there’s lots of different projects that emerge and if I’m interested, I’ll grab it. So for example, at the moment, I’m making a film with some colleagues about domestic violence. So it’ll just depend on what seems to be the critical issues. And the other part of what I do in writing is I’m an author of books and I do a lot of book reviews and write articles for newspapers, magazines, do some TV work, radio work, just a lot of helping people to understand more about the psychology of people.

Terri Connellan: So many threads, but so many interesting aspects to your life and to your work. And I love that at its core about helping people to be the best people they can be and I think that’s where your work at my work comes together. We’re both interested in that space where people can make choices, make transitions, practice self-leadership, understand themselves to be the best they can be, but I absolutely love all the different strands. And so we’ll explore quite a few of those in our chat today.

So thank you. And thank you for your review of Wholehearted too cause, that was a beautiful first review, which I’ll put in the show notes, but thank you for that. And the work that you do, I’m sure is hugely appreciated because it’s one thing to write and create something, isn’t it? It’s about sharing it with the world too. So thank you for that. So we met through our mutual love of psychological type and it’s valuable insights. So why have psychological type and personality been such powerful frameworks in your life?

Meredith Fuller: I’ve always been psychologically minded. And even as a child, I wanted to be a psychologist and it struck me that I was fascinated all through school about what do I think people will become when they get older so much so that I used to write down all the names of the kids in my class and write down what I thought they’d be when they grew up.

So obviously, the issue of vocation spoke to me very early on, and it was clear to me that people were different and that you could cluster them in some way. And I used to wonder why doesn’t anyone else seem to see what I’m seeing? So I felt quite different and alone with that and I guess for me, what I love about AusAPT and working with psychological type is we have a group of disparate people who are all keen to understand what our differences and similarities are.

And we like looking underneath and we like reflecting back on what we’re observing and to my mind, there’s a great depth of thinking that is so helpful for people. And I certainly find that psychological type has informed most of the work I’ve done since about 1998.

Terri Connellan: Wow. It’s been a really long-term influence then. Yeah. So just to explain to people listening Meredith and I are part of the Australian Association for Psychological Type, which is a connection of people in Australia, but globally who have a passion for personality and psychological type and it’s great community for people who as you’ve said think really deeply about the way we’re made up, the way we’re wired and the influence of that with nurture too. It’s not all about how we’re wired is it? But it’s obviously a big player in how things play out. So how do you work with these insights with clients?

Meredith Fuller: Individuals will come for counseling or careers counseling, and they’ll normally present with distress about their relationships at work or their relationships in the family, or with significant others or their difficulty in forming relationships, their concern about their careers and we’ll explore their lives. And I like to look at childhood through to the present and I like to understand their narrative. But I also like to look at what are their ability, skills, interests, values to get that full picture and what their hopes and dreams are in terms of who was this child? What did that child want in the future? And who is this adult now? What does this adult want?

And increasingly, I’m noticing that there’s so many problems with people who are not being valued and validated in their relationships and at work. And so, the thing that struck me about your titles about, this wholehearted and the shadow coming to work and the half-hearted working. The turns of phrase you used were just beautiful because they just encapsulated for me how people talk about work versus self.

And, I loved the way you gave a number of activities and exercises that they could reflect on, that helped them to see what the misalignment is and what’s changed. And that just sits so nicely with the sort of work that I do with people where something shifted. And if they don’t address what’s going on for them, invariably, they get sick or they have to sever relationships or rethink a lot of things.

So definitely there’s a sense that people are coming because they’re not happy. They’re in distress. They know something’s wrong. And they know that it’s very toxic for them, but they feel so stuck and they often feel very trapped and they seek some support from elsewhere because there’s something intolerable that’s going on.

Terri Connellan: That makes perfect sense with me cause certainly when I went through my journey, in my case, I reached out to a coach. There’s lots of different people or actions we can take when we feel that. But it’s that, as you say, that real sense of misalignment between who we are, what we want to do, what we want to be, and then what’s actually happening. And there’s lots of reasons for feeling stuck isn’t there.

Meredith Fuller: Oh, absolutely. And also the issue of age, life-stage. The sorts of issues people might present with when they’re 27 are going to be very different to what they’re presenting with at 57. So, that’s of concern to me that there’s quite a number of women I find who haven’t got the financial security that perhaps men might have. Historically, we know why that is. And they find themselves in this position where they’re being edged out of their organization, or they’re not ready to leave, but there’s nothing for them anymore. And they’re really at their prime and they might be in their forties, fifties, and sixties, and they’ve got so much to offer, but they just can’t get a gig anywhere so that’s a real concern. And the other one is that similarly with a lot of men who are really stuck, lamenting that nobody wants them and what are they going to do with the rest of their lives? People that have been chewed up and spat out. So that’s very common.

Terri Connellan: And it’s ironic as we get through life, we get more wisdom, more skills and, then we get in a situation where we feel of less value. So it’s a huge issue and it’s obviously something we’ve both really noticed in the work and, and I’ve experienced it myself. So it’s something obviously you’re seeing in your clients.

So in Wholehearted, in your work with clients, we both use psychological type and personality as like a compass or a framework or a way of seeing personal development. I’ve spoken about that in my book, and obviously your story is very different. So do you want to tell us more about your psychological type makeup and how your understanding of your personality and how you’re wired has helped you grow and evolve?

Meredith Fuller: And so my preference is for introverted, intuition, feeling, perceiving, [INFP] and I was aware when I was very young, that there were two parts of me, two aspects. There was the very introverted—I loved reading. I loved thinking, daydreaming and performing, and this would be my outgoing situations. So I started working very young. So I was in professional salaried work when I was four and a half. That was because I came from a single parent home and my father had left and there was no supporting parent benefit. My mother was very unwell. We also had in our house, her mother and her mother’s sister who had Down’s syndrome.

So my mother was quite trapped, as a caretaker and not really able to go off to work. So it was quite dire. But from when I was very young, three or four, I just love singing, dancing, chatting to strangers, that sort of thing. And so there was a photographer called Athol Smith who was very famous at the time.

And he and his wife, Bambi, wanted me to do some modelling with them. And so that began a modelling career and that also led into an acting career. So I had a situation where I loved all that. I could go off to work and earn some money to help my family, but I could do things I enjoyed, which was entertaining groups, being in plays, et cetera.

But I knew that was a part of me. And the other part of me needed that balance of time alone. And I always had that fascination by how people were different. Why were they different? What can I understand about that and how to make sense of all of that? I guess I’ve always been interested in these things and another connection we’ve had is with the the tarot.

So I started reading tarot when I was about 15 and that’s always been a lifelong interest in collecting decks and exploring symbolism and the unconscious. And so locating MBTI when I was working at a tertiary institution. It was about 97, 98. It seemed to me that things very much came together with that because here was something cogent.

It made sense in a way that I just felt encapsulated everything I’d been thinking about. So I seized on that and became very involved in doing something to help people train and bringing that to tertiary institutions, bringing that to organizations and then working one-to-one with clients.

And I found it’s been the most useful thing because it isn’t about people running around doing a questionnaire. It’s about understanding yourself through that self-reflection and observation and imbibing the theory yourself. So, it’s got a lot more to offer than say, there’s a lot of tests and little questionnaires and things people do, and they’re quite simplistic.

And of course the fewer categories, the less comprehensive and the less good affinity. So there’s something about having 16 types that’s so robust and it’s something that people can grasp very easily and then it can help inform, well, who am I with? How do I work? What do I need? Where am my gaps in communicating? So it’s something very practical and very common sense.

Terri Connellan: That really aligns with how I feel too. First it’s making sense of your own personality and your own view of the world, I think often is part of the lens through which we see type. And then, in my role as a coach or your role as a psychologist using those skills to help others to see what your strengths are, where you’ve got blind spots, what you might be missing, because we all just naturally have certain ways of seeing the world that’s so natural to us, we think it’s the same for everybody.

Meredith Fuller: That’s a really good point you’re raising because obviously one of the issues about working in my field is that we see the people who don’t fit, who have got distress, who have got concerns, who do feel different. So , I do have a skewed sample in that sense.

So invariably, what I find is there are certain types who come for counselling and careers counselling and my husband, who’s a psychotherapist psychologist, he finds the same thing. So, we tend to work more with the introverted, intuitive, thinking or feeling perceiving or judging types than perhaps the more mainstream types.

And that interests me as well, that I can actually reframe a pretty horrible life experience for someone, and they can actually celebrate what is unique about them and then work to their strengths rather than feeling unwanted in our society.

Terri Connellan: That’s really powerful work. I think type’s such a valuable tool for reframing, for understanding. I like the idea of it as a compass, as Jung used that idea of the compass and the framework for taking us forward. So, thanks for those insights. You mentioned tarot, which is another love we share. I write about tarot as a tool and a support for wayfinding and personal insight in my book. And I know you have been collecting decks and have lots of insights. What are your thoughts about tarot as a personal development practice?

Meredith Fuller: I love the visual aspect for people. It’s very clear that some people are very auditory and they need to have deep conversation and, and music might be really significant in how I might work with them. For some people it’s visual. So films, things like tarot, help them get the awareness, get the insight, help them to name what’s going on for themselves, and also really help them connect with their unconscious.

And the thing that I particularly like about tarot is that it sits so beautifully with doing dreamwork and how in our dreams, we understand that present, past and future are interconnected. We don’t have linear time, that images can be constructed or archetypal. There are messages in our dreams.

And similarly with working with your tarot and working with your unconscious, you’re actually helping yourself to appreciate what’s going on for you in a way that enables you to perhaps have a few more resources in the moment when you’re feeling lost, uncertain, confused. So it’s something very tangible. And it’s also something that I really appreciate because I love ancient cultures, ancient religions, ancient symbolism, and also futuristic work. So I love how it just seems to combine all of those.

And it’s a great tool for quickly communicating with someone else. It’s a little bit like the way we use type that, you know, we can say, oh, you know, my preference is X. So suddenly we understand a lot very quickly. And similarly with cards, oh look, I keep getting certain cards, what’s going on with me. It’s a good way of quickly absorbing and integrating information that helps us.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. So I love two things you said there, firstly, about both tools,type and tarot, or both frameworks are ways of tapping into that unconscious, like what’s beneath the surface or what’s less conscious for us.

And then secondly, how they both like languages or symbolic systems or languages, we can become more fluent in. I love that idea because they do. At a type conference, for example, when we’re together, I just love it. We all understand, at different levels, but it’s sort of a language we can speak.

And as you say, it’s the same with tarot. When I talk about the Six of Swords and the Eight of Cups in the book, I hope people who don’t know that can also get a way in. But for those who understand that, they will bring that understanding to that book. So it just means we’ve got a language for communicating.

Meredith Fuller: It’s interesting. There was a line in the book that was really interesting for me, that you made that I hadn’t seen anywhere else before. And it was very significant. I think, as a teaching tool for a lot of people who are looking at this business of career change. You’re talking about, you’re leaving success. So you’re leaving things that are working, you’re leaving things and you’re going off and you made the comment, you’re actually choosing to leave the successful things.

And that was a very significant statement because for a lot of people where I find they’re stuck is: I earn X amount of dollars and I don’t want to learn less. I’ve been doing this for so long and I’m a partner or a senior administrator or an executive, or I’m a X, Y, Z ed. I can’t leave all this, all this work. I can’t stop and start something where I might earn less or not have my status or not have the recognition. And that can actually paralyze people.

And so we’re looking at the duality of, well, on the one hand, you’re saying you feel dead inside, you hate going to work. You feel there’s so much inside you that’s not being expressed. You’re bored with what you do, even though you’re busy, you feel trapped. And yet you’re saying I can’t let go, you know, do I stay, do I let go?

And there’s something about the way you’ve talked about this card and saying, you’re actually choosing to leave your success. It was just a beautiful way of describing an active decision. And I think that’s very empowering for people who are frightened about letting go of material things, or letting go of how much work they’ve put into something to begin something different.

And with that thread, you also talk about we bring ourselves to every new thing we do. So it’s just a different iteration of what we’ve done before, but some of those phrases will resonate with a lot of people. And it will help give them a boost to say, I can do this. I’m choosing to do this.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. Yeah. I think that idea of abandoned success, and the image of the Eight of Cups. If you have a look at a fairly traditional pack the cups stacked up, and then a person’s choosing to walk away from the full cups. Yeah. And to me, it’s about identity. It’s about how much of our identity we’ve invested in that role, that position, the money that we earn, whatever it might be. And then that choosing to find a new path is incredibly difficult.

Meredith Fuller: I guess what makes it hard is our society doesn’t understand. So when people say I’m having a change, I’m leaving X or, I was doing a more senior role, but I’m going back to do a more specialist role in the same organization, or I’ve worked long and hard for this and I’ve got all these qualifications and so forth, but I don’t want to do it anymore. I’m doing something else. And how other people really try to interfere and say, you’ll regret it. You shouldn’t do it. What if you can’t get another job and everyone will laugh at you and what a stupid thing to do. And they’re actually, I think often frightened because they don’t want that other person to go off and be happy because they’re not happy either.

So a lot of investment in keeping the status quo. So I think the way you’ve talked about the Eight of Cups in that sense, that it’s a really sound decision to choose to walk away from amazing success, because you know you will have different success and the success you will have is more congruent with who you truly are. There’s something in a lot of those comments that you’ve made that I just think for people reading the book will strike such a chord.

Terri Connellan: Thank you for those comments. I really appreciate it because it’s something I really felt personally. And my aim in writing the book was to help cause when I went through it, I also felt a bit lost. And there weren’t a lot of frameworks in writing the book. It was working through what I experienced, but then trying to provide some anchors for others.

Meredith Fuller: That was another thing. I did want to mention this because I was very struck by how you wrote the book. What’s unique about your book is that you talk about your own process, including everything you did, every book you read, every person you saw and you very generously talk about what you took from each experience. And it’s almost like a little road map of, here’s a whole lot of books you can buy or types of people you can go and see, and how a coach might be different to a therapist.

And there’s so much that you give in that that is so helpful because traditionally when people write self-help books or here’s your way of looking at your career or change or whatever. They’re very much about, well, this is the system and this is what you follow. And, they don’t compare and contrast other techniques or things that they’ve struck. They don’t suggest that very wide exploration and they don’t talk so much about the internal distress.

They’re much more about, okay, so here’s your problem. So here’s step one and that’ll go to step three and then you’ll be at five and then you’ll be done. And so there’s something quite desiccated about reading those books. Whereas with yours, a) because you’re so honest and open about everything that happened to you, people can feel that you understand them. But the way you talk about how you made decisions about, will I go here? Will I read that? What did that trigger? What did that mean? Why is this person good at this? It’s so much more comprehensive for people to say, okay, well, I didn’t like that book and I didn’t like that person. But you know, it’s like a hairdresser. I’ll go and find one that cuts the hair how I want. Thanks very much.

You’ve really given people permission to play with the way through. And I can certainly see how this kind of approach has been missing in the past because there are a lot of books came out in the eighties and the nineties. It’s almost like we get waves of things happening, but they never really hit the spot about people who had this profound sense of emptiness and loss and confusion and concern.

And they didn’t help people who couldn’t just snappily work through each exercise and tick off all the goals and have it neat and tidy. And, I like it cause it’s messy and our lives are messy. And you’ve really captured that for people, which is nice. And that sense that you have with your work is, well, it is going to be unexpected. We don’t know how this is all going away, but it could be this. It could be that. It could be something else, but there’s growth in it and there’s excitement. And there’s learning in this curiosity, and there’s a sense of mastery rather than having a person feel well look, I’m hopeless, even the help books don’t help me cause I’m so hopeless. So to me, you’ve really picked up on a book for our time.

Terri Connellan: Thank you. I really appreciate that cause often when you’re writing a personal narrative like that, it’s that challenge of sharing your experiences a bit like, show don’t tell. I was just chatting about this in another interview, the difference between telling people to do something versus this is what I went through. And here’s what I suggest, which I thinks a more powerful way to go. And you’re also an author. So tell about your books and the topics you focused on in your writing career.

Meredith Fuller: So I’ve written a number of books that were more academic, but the one I did that was more mainstream was called Working with Bitches and it was identifying the eight types of nasty people that you find, nasty women and how to deal with them. And why I did that was, again, part of the theme of what was happening with my work is women were saying I’m really struggling with a particular woman at work who might be my support person, my boss, my team leader, my colleague, and they were being undermined or they were being distressed and they couldn’t understand what was going on.

They didn’t know how to manage it. And they were being so triggered. It was causing great alarm. So I wanted to identify what was happening with these themes. So I did some research and worked on about 2000 cases and put together types based on all of the materials, the data that I gathered and then worked through, well, how could people deal with that in a way that was safe and in a way that also appreciated their personality structure. Because usually the people who were coming to see me were very much feeling preferred women who avoided conflict, who were frightened by power and control issues and were really getting decimated at work or in relationships. Often it might be something about a mother-in-law or a sister-in-law or somebody’s sister or something.

 So it was a way of validating that what they were feeling was true, because there’s been such a theme of, oh, you can never complain about another woman. We women have to stick together because we’re all a homogenous group and men are the enemy. So you can’t say that you’re struggling with a woman. So they’re actually being silenced before they could even articulate what was going on for them. So it was a way of appreciating that all genders walk up and down a continuum of nice to nasty and what you can do to manage that better.

Terri Connellan: Oh, it sounds a really practical book cause that’s something a lot of us experience in different ways, but maybe don’t have any reference points to make sense of all of that. And often when that happens, we tend to think, oh, it’s us. Is that something you’ve come across?

Meredith Fuller: Absolutely, and of course the other thing with that too, is that often it’s about different personality types. And if you’re not as aware of your own style, you certainly not going to be able to identify what someone else’s style is or where there could be a mismatch or a misunderstanding, or how you could broach that to make it a little more palatable at work.

And one of the key findings in my work, and this has also been researched by Ian Ball, who is our colleague at AusAPT. Interestingly enough back in the day, many, eons ago, I used to work at a university with Ian where he was Head of the Psychology department. So I already knew him before we found ourselves back together in our association.

His research found that while there are far more feeling preferred females, for women in the workplace who had a more senior role, they usually had a thinking preference. So if there’s only about 25% of females have a thinking preference, 75% of those females will be in a senior role in the workplace.

And one of the things that was very clear to me was that people were coming to me with this terrible distress about a thinking preferred manager who actually wasn’t being a bitch, wasn’t being horrible, was actually really trying to help them grow and develop, monitor them, train them, work well with them, but there was such a misunderstanding about the way they went about this. They were really at cross purposes.

So it was also part of my book to say, hang on, maybe that person you’re having trouble with, isn’t a bitch. Maybe it’s something about you you have to look at. So let’s have a look at how you can work better with those people. And I certainly used to find that working in organizations. I’ve done a lot of work in banks and legal firms and universities, where there tend to be more thinking preferred females in positions of leadership and authority. And often they would be having difficulties with their feeling preferred females. And it really was, talking two different worlds, two different languages and so much misunderstanding.

And there were some things you could do to make it work and that really excites me. And again, one of the things I loved in your book, as a thinking preferred female, you operate very much using your feeling and your thinking preferences. And you talk about your integration of those things. And this is so important in terms of, I think all of us men and women being able to access all the parts of ourselves. So I thought you handled that very well. And one of the things I’ve noticed as, I guess walking the talk in your role as President of our association, I noticed that you do the very thing we talk about. You identify well, who are the people on the team, or who the members, or who am I working with? What do those people need to do their best? How can I respond to that, so that I honor the difference that I have around me and I see you actively do that. So I see you working very hard to connect with your committees and your staff and your members and your groups and whatever, and doing it well. And so to me again, there’s that sense of, okay, so here’s someone who writes a book and she actually practices what she’s talking about and I see it. So that was another thing that struck me about what you’ve achieved in this work.

So it also sat really nicely with me about knowing that, it’s very good for many women, I believe to understand a little more about what the thinking preferred woman’s doing, because, historically, that’s been really a problem for thinking preferred females. They’ve had a terrible time at school. They’ve often had a dreadful time when they not yet in a position of authority and they’re struggling. It’s one of those things where the more we understand our gender, the better, and you seem to be saying on our journey to become all of these aspects, let’s understand how it might be played out as we sometimes swing from one extreme to the other till we find that fulcrum balance and why it is important for us to take the time to consider that innermost part of our souls and how we are who we bring to work. We can’t divorce ourselves from all of that.

What happened for me with the book [Wholehearted] was thinking, well, I’m not able to see as many people. I can’t see them in person. We’re doing Zoom work. It’s a bit tricky holding people. Here’s a resource that people can work through that I would say is safe, trustworthy. It doesn’t humiliate anyone. It doesn’t cause people to feel stupid if they can’t work through the exercises or there’s no problem about working through the Companion Workbook and the book. And it’s something that gives us some dialogue when we have a couple of weeks gap between sessions. So I thought you’ve really come up with a tool, right when we must need something.

There used to be a number of books. Everyone would get one every year, like What Color is my Parachute? They were very superficial and they really didn’t hit this spot about people are really saying, who am I really and how do I want to live my life? What does my life stand for? And how am I in relation to others? And so those very fundamental questions and the way we’re changing work. We’re changing work to be, as you would appreciate, most small business run by women, most new business women setting up, most people going off becoming specialists or consultants who are collapsing who they work with at different times.

This is the way that we’re working and doing several jobs in a year. And just going with the flow. And historically, a lot of the books about careers and development just didn’t take into account the new way that work is emerging. So, I’ve been really happy to say, well, here’s a tool that I can recommend both to men and women, interestingly enough, and get them to work through. And then when we talk, they’ve had the chance to really work through some thoughts themselves and that really adds to our work together. So I’ve been really struck by how you’ve put, certainly your understanding of type in, but also your understanding about how organizations have been working and where they need to be working in the future. So it’s got a real breath of fresh air to it.

Terri Connellan: Oh, thank you. And I was really appreciative too of your comments that it’s a book you can use with clients, that idea of particularly in times when we’re not having as much, face-to-face, it’s something people can take away. And it was certainly designed to be part of a whole that people can work through the workbook, read the main book, have their own reflections, have space, create their own ways of working through it. But have a mix as we’ve talked about before of meandering, but also structure to work through. And I guess that’s the teacher in me as well as INTJ coming out. So, yeah, it’s designed to be that sort of self coaching, self-leadership guide as well, supported by also having a face to face.

Meredith Fuller: Yes, that was another thing I liked about it. We want people to sit with the uncertainty. We want people to explore symbolism and dreamwork and art and literature and film and tarot and everything possible. But we want them to be able to do it in a way that they can then integrate that into their everyday life and this helps them do that. Whereas some sort of new age materials, there’s no relationship to get up each day and go to work, come home, and you have to earn an income and you have to feed yourself. And, you have to be in relationship with other people who aren’t on the same journey and all of this sort of thing.

So I felt that you provided those safe walls if you like so there was plenty of space to bounce around in this, but you knew that you were being held in a very caretaking way while you went about exploring all of these, for some people, very new ways of looking at their careers, particularly looking at tarot cards, for example.

Terri Connellan: Exactly. And I think from looking at your body of work, which is a concept I talk about in the book, that all the skills, all the work that we do, the volunteer work, all the different work that we do, often that idea of having multiple sources of income, being a multi passionate, multipotentialite, is very much embraced, I think, by how I’ve moved and certainly it’s embraced in your life. So with all that amazing body of work you have over time and what I also hear from clients is sometimes having lots of passions, people can feel overwhelmed, by which way to go, what to do, what advice would you give to others who are also looking to embrace their multi passionate body of work and interests?

Meredith Fuller: So I had an INTP mother, which is a great mother to have, so she was quite unique and unusual, and her attitude was, you find your own way, Meredith. Value education and trust yourself, back yourself and so for me, I’ve always felt a little different from a lot of people because I’ve always known exactly what I wanted to do is from when I was very young.

So I’ve never felt, oh, there’s too many things, or I don’t know which one to do first. What I’ve always done is I’ve said to myself, I have to go with what’s most important to me at the moment. So what’s the most burning, exciting thing for me now. And I know there’ll always be plenty of time to either come back to something or do it, postpone it and do it later, or do a little bit of it, stop, do something else. I’ve never felt, aw gee, you can’t play with it all. I just knew you could never do it all at the same time. So I find that my question always will be when there are so many things I enjoy doing, how do I choose? I’ll go with what sits inside of me being best, right thing that I have the most energy for. So for me, it’s often about energy.

So I do a lot of pro bono work for clients, particularly cause I work in the creative arts a lot. There are a lot of people in the creative arts, who’ve got no money and I often see a number of those people for nothing. And how do I choose? Because so many people, how do you choose? And something will happen in that engagement with that individual that I’ll feel, and I’ll go with that. So for example, at the moment, this is a funny story, but it’s a good example of how do you choose what you do? We mainly do a lot of our house maintenance ourselves, but in a two story house, there was no way my 70 year old husband was getting up a ladder.

So we had a housepainter come to do the top bit. And he brought his son with him to help hold the ladder. And they were talking and his son had wanted to be an artist and he was really lost. And he was very distressed and there was something in this young man that I felt. So I’ve now been working with him for some months. So he comes every week and we’re exploring his move towards becoming an artist, how he will go about choosing a course to do, how we’ll go about earning some money, to be able to be a student, to purchase all his materials, how he works in the field.

And his sense of identity and who he’s becoming and how he deals with issues because we’ve all got issues, obviously. And because he’s such an aware person, he has a lot to work through. So there was something I felt in him where I felt he had something very special and I wanted to nurture that. And he’s a very humble person and he’s a very respectful person. He’s got qualities as well. So I’ve really felt drawn to working with him. So there’ll be something about that. Or if I’m choosing a play, I want to write, it’ll be a burning issue that I’ve got some energy for. Nothing that might be commercially successful.

It’s always about what I’m interested in and that’s what I’ll do. And if friends come to me and say, how about a project? I’m doing this. Are you interested? Again, it’s always going to be because I either love working with those people or I love the issue and I’m happy to just trust my own sense of where my energy is saying to go.

And it’s very much like that Eight of Cups card. Often it means I walk away from successful things because there’s something new I want to do and different I want to do that the energy is there for. And I know I’m not saying goodbye to everything forever because there’s plenty of time. So it’s something about noticing what’s the spark, what’s the energy, what’s the curiosity. And if you follow that, they’ll always be a few things that bubble up to the very top, rather than everything. And I really love this notion of, just because you’re really good at something, you don’t have to keep doing it. Do something else.

Terri Connellan: Hmm. I love that too. I think that’s great advice because just some of the people I’ve worked with, what you’re saying resonates. And some of them are INFPs too, which is interesting, it’s that idea of just so many passions, so many interests and they compete. But I think that idea of being more attuned to what you’re drawn to and prioritizing that. I’m also hearing you say almost taking a bit of a project approach to things, to help compartmentalize, I guess?

Meredith Fuller: Yeah, I think it’s really important to compartmentalize because I notice for me, if I want to fit a lot of things, I couldn’t keep doing too much of one thing because there wouldn’t be the space. It’s almost like asking yourself, how many days a week are you fit for counseling? How many days a week are you fit for writing? How many days a week are you fit to do radio interviews or whatever it is, and work out roughly what those clusters will look like, and then be really strong.

So I’ll be able to say, well, I counsel on these days so if you can’t fit in with me, sorry, I’ll refer you to someone else because I can’t keep stretching across taking the space from other projects that I really believe in. Because if I do that, I’ll end up getting sick. I’ll end up trying to overstretch and I won’t manage, and it won’t work.

Terri Connellan: So there’s a couple of questions I’m going to ask podcast guests as we go through. And, this being the Create Your Story podcast, it’s a big question, but I’m interested to see just what comes up for you when you’re asked the question, how have you created your story over your lifetime?

Meredith Fuller: Okay. I’ve created my story by allowing myself to sit a bit away from the mainstream. And I’ve enabled myself to listen to what my heart wants to do, even when it seems at odds with what the sensible thing to do is, or the smartest thing to do is, and almost like back myself, even when it looked ridiculous, because I told myself when I was very young, there’ll be a pattern, I don’t understand it yet, but there’ll be a pattern that will make sense to me, but it’s something that I’m doing that’s going to be unique to me. So I can’t be impacted by what everyone else thinks I should do or what one should do.

I have to trust that little voice in me that says, I know I’m here to do something unique for me. And I’ve always done that and to my detriment often, but it’s like I’m absolutely convinced for me that what’s helped me is by wanting to go off and do whatever it is I want to explore because I’m curious about it. Even if it’s not fashionable or even if it’s way too early and then once I’ve understood it or mastered it or done enough, I don’t have to keep doing that. I want to do something else. So a little bit like saying, yeah, just because you’re good at something you don’t have to keep doing it, do something else, as long as it’s what you’re interested in and you believe in it and it sits with your values.

And my values very much came from my childhood and my upbringing, which was about, to care for people and to care for relationships and to care for what the purpose is that we’re here for. And in a deeper sense, in a much deeper sense. And I’ve always appreciated self-expression. And so for me, creating my story was about saying, well, okay if I can trust myself to follow what my interests are and use that as my guide and not be swayed by what everybody else says you should do, or how everyone else goes about doing things, that’s going to keep me most aligned with my true self. And that’s what I’ll follow. And it was pretty clear to me very early on that I didn’t have a lot of the values that mainstream society seems to have.

I believe that if you do things that are really important to you and you do them very well, somehow you’ll be rewarded and it may not be quid pro quo or tit for tat or something, but somehow it’ll work out. If you are transparent and if you do believe in what you do, and if you do respect other people in how you go about that. You know, that whole thing, isn’t it about freedom but freedom as long as you don’t impact on other people’s freedom.

So that’s been a bit of a narrative for me. And it’s almost like if I had to say, well, where does all that come from? I’m convinced it came from being a little girl who used to believe in her dreams and sitting around daydreaming and imagining the future and imagining things way ahead of time and backing that instead of what was just literally right in front of me.

And that came from coming from a family where we didn’t have a lot, it was very difficult. So we had a lot of trauma in the family, a lot of poverty in the family. But what I had with my INTP mother was a woman who said, use your brains and you can help other people. Use your brains and you’ll find a way to construct something positive out of whatever happens. And I saw her do that. So I had a very good role model in my mother. And I also had a very good role model in reading because I love to write, I was always reading books.

I just found that I was far more interested in thinking big picture future than I ever was in what was going on in the here and now. So it was some something about a knowing that I had and that I couldn’t not know once you have that feeling. And also what was good for me, if this makes sense, it’s like I lived my life backwards.

So if you start working at four, that’s a long time that you’re in the workplace, and if you’re very famous, when you’re a child, well, you’ve sort of been there, done that. It doesn’t matter. It’s like I didn’t have to build up to anything. It’s like, well, I’ve already ticked off this and I’ve ticked off that and I’ve ticked off something else.

And so there’s so many things that I had done that really didn’t concern me at all that I could just go along my own merry way, do what I liked because I didn’t have to prove anything. If that made sense.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. That’s fantastic. Thank you. It’s just fascinating to hear how, with all those different things in the mix, how you created your story to where you are now. So thank you for that. So in Wholehearted, I share 15 wholehearted self-leadership tips, particularly for women, but for all people. So I’m interested in what your top wholehearted self-leadership tips might be for women.

Meredith Fuller: The first one is I believe that it’s a good idea to have a small group of people with you, like your clan or friends or colleagues who you trust, that you feel safe with and who have similar shared values. I take that very seriously. I won’t work on projects with people that I don’t feel that we’re aligned about our values and honesty, transparency, trust, loyalty, all those things are really important to me.

So, that’s a very important issue about who do you connect with. I believe that it’s important to work on communication. So, if I’m going to do it, I need to know how I feel. So I’ll do a lot of checking. How am I feeling? What’s being triggered in me? What do I need to do about that? Can I talk to someone? How do I do that? So in my life I’ve always been keen to look for wise counsel. When I was a child, I got to figure out what I would look for in a partner, because how would I know I didn’t have a father. We were very isolated in our home. There weren’t very many male role models.

So I read all the classics when I was in primary school and I thought, I don’t want all the exciting men. I want all the nice men that I’m reading about in these classics. So I thought: these are the qualities I want in a man. I want a nice man. And I got it from the books. And then as I got older, I realized that I want to understand myself and that will help me understand others.

So anything that would help me do the best I can for myself, I will do. So I went into therapy. I went into supervision. As a psychologist, I think it’s important that we do our own therapy and we do our own supervision. So, whether you go to coaches or whoever you go to, it’s going to someone where you can actually explore your process. So I think that’s really important.

And of course, reading, I’m always reading millions of books so I think that’s important. The other thing I think is working out very simply, what do you need for wellness? So, I’m a diabetic, I’ve got a lot of health issues. I have to say part of my day is managing my diabetes, is going to appointments and is to understand that as I get older, I have less energy than I did when I was younger because of that.

So therefore I have to really cherry pick my projects. So I think, know what your health is. One of the biggest problems I’ve seen in nearly every woman who’s come to me is they push themselves way too far. They work too long hours. Doing work that’s killing them and they can’t stop. And so I think it’s really important to say in the week, how much space have you got for work? How much do you need for sleep? How much do you need for your internal life? How much do you need for your relationships and make that pie and make it work?

And I’d also do that with being strict about those boundaries. So both Brian and I, because we’re helpers and we’re feelers, we’re busy. So people come to helping, feeling, busy people and you need to learn to say no. And so while it would be nice to do everything everyone wants you to do, I can’t. So, be really clear about how do you cluster it. So it might be for me, I work in clusters of time. So it might be two days for this and all night for that and a weekend for that. And that’s how I like to work. Other people it might be well mornings isfor this and afternoons is for that. So know what your best rhythm is and then be really strict about how you protect that. And don’t keep saying, oh, I’ll just let this one in. I’ll just let that one in because you’ll get overloaded and you get sick and then, you’re no good to anyone.

So I think they’re probably the key things for me, but, really overall, it’s something about, got to know who you are. You got to know what’s important to you. You got to know what you’re here for. What’s your purpose. And the threads will probably stay the same, although the execution of that will shift over time.

And so you have to keep saying, does this matter to me? Is this engaging me? Am I growing in this? Am I learning in this? Am I sharing with others with this? What’s the point of me doing this and doing it because you want to do it, you believe in it and you love it. So they’re probably the most important things, but you know, it be sensible. Like you might have to say to yourself, well, how much money do I need to earn to live for the week? Okay. I need to earn x dollars. How many hours a week can I possibly work x hours? Well, what do I need to earn per hour to do that? And what will I do to get that? And then if I’m prepared to say, I’ll do a day for that, then that gives me three days for something else. Okay. That’s fine. So it’s not like a childish, I’ll just do what I like, blow everyone else. It’s about making choices and decisions that give the bulk of your time to what you love and you think is very important, but also that you’re mindful that you do live in a society and you do have to buy food and pay rent and, you know, whatever. So something about, honouring, not only yourself, but the other in relationships.

Terri Connellan: It’s a rich body of knowledge, honed from all your experiences and all your client work too. So thank so much for sharing that. And thanks so much for your time today. It’s been a fantastic conversation and I’m sure the listeners will get so many gems of wisdom and prompts to think about themselves. And thank you also for your comments and kind insights about Wholehearted, my book as well, really appreciate that and your support. So, Meredith, where can people find more about you and your body of work online?

Meredith Fuller: My website’s MeredithFuller.com.au. That’s probably a good place to start.

Terri Connellan: That’s great. And you’ve got so much on there about all the things you’re up to your books, your work with your husband, Brian, which we didn’t talk about so much, but he’s a filmmaker, psychologist as well, and your partnership is an incredible part of your life as well. So we’ll pop the links to Meredith’s key work in the show notes and thanks everyone for listening and thanks so much Meredith.

Meredith Fuller

About Meredith Fuller

Meredith’s concurrent careers have included author, playwrightcolumnist & media commentatortalkback radio guesttheatre director & producer, TV co-host, actorpsychological profiler and trainer. As a psychologist in private practice, providing counselling and career development to individuals and groups, she has also consulted to organisations on professional development and interpersonal skills for over 40 years. She ran a university careers counselling service for 12 years and has been a sessional lecturer in postgraduate courses in vocational psychology at several universities.

Meredith’s website: https://meredithfuller.com.au/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mfpsy/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fuller.walsh

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-fuller-8075a110/

Links to explore:

Book Club: Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club – open for enrolment now – join us for January 19/20 book club start.

My books:

Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

Free resources:

Chapter 1 of Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

https://www.quietwriting.net/wholehearted-chapter-1

Other free resources: https://www.quietwriting.com/free-resources/

My coaching:

Work with me

Personality Stories Coaching

The Writing Road Trip – a community program with Beth Cregan – kicking off Jan 2022

Connect on social media

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/writingquietly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writingquietly

Twitter: https://twitter.com/writingquietly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terri-connellan/

planning & productivity writing

Author – my 2021 Word of the Year check-in!

December 30, 2021

My word for 2021 is AUTHOR.

Here’s what I wrote on Instagram about what that meant sitting on the threshold of 2021:

  • stepping into the identity of author
  • embracing life as an author and learning new skills – publication, launching, author platform.
  • keeping writing front and centre in every way
  • completing, beginning and progressing writing projects
  • being visible as an author and talking about my books and writing
  • helping others embrace writing and being an author
  • helping women be the creator of their stories and the active author of their lives through enhanced self-leadership.

Here’s how that shaped up over the year and some tips for applying this learning in your life!

Stepping into the identity of author

What’s the difference in identity between writer and author? That’s something I’ve pondered this year. For me, WRITER is more focused on the process and act of writing. AUTHOR is more about what we shape and produce through writing: a finished book, something published and out in the world in some way.

I love writing especially the writer’s process so have always aligned myself to that identity. Stepping into the identity of author feels more public. It meant committing to completing my book Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition and the Wholehearted Companion Workbook. After four plus years of writing, it meant moving through the long haul of creating a book – or two – and finishing them. Receiving my books in print for the first time. Having them sold by book-sellers. Seeing them in online stores. Working in partnership with editors and publishers like the wonderful the kind press. These were thrilling milestones and I’ve loved stepping into AUTHOR as my writing identity in 2022. Thanks to those who have read Wholehearted and supported me on my author journey!

Tips for you:

If stepping into the identity of author is a priority in your life for 2022:

Embracing life as an author and learning new skills – publication, launching, author platform.

This has been a huge focus this year and I have learnt so much through a combination of doing, reading and listening. Working with the kind press as my publisher has been a wonderful introduction to independent publishing. I deliberately choose the indie author path. This is because I want to keep control of my work as much as I can and have creative freedom. Learning the skills to independently publish has been something I’ve invested time and money in over the long-term for about 10 years now. So to go through the process was so exciting.

I chose to work in partnership with the kind press because even though I had some knowledge, I didn’t have the practical experience. It felt overwheling to do it all on my own. Through this partnership I achieved two goals:

  1. I independently published my books in a way I am totally delighted with, and
  2. I learnt about the independent publishing process; information I can use again and again on my journey.

Another valuable process was working through and creating my Author Business Plan with the help of Joanna Penn’s book Your Author Business Plan. This helped me to gather together what I already had created on my Quiet Writing business journey as a creative. And to work out the next steps to focus more on my author platform.

Key players in understanding the launch process as an author were my publisher Natasha Gilmour, editor Penelope Love, publicist Sian Yewdall and Jessica Tutton who I have worked with over 2020-1 on launching.

This Book Launch Checklist shared with me by the lovely Amanda Rootsey helped a lot too. It feels overwhelming at times as launching anything often does. But strengthening my skillset around launching generally helped immensely.

The other part of embracing life as an author was learning new writing skills especially around long haul writing. Editing, especially editing two books at once, was a challenging process. I was so grateful for the partnership and support of my editors, Penelope Love and Dr Juliet Richters, as well as my publisher, Natasha Gilmour and my co-writing buddy Beth Cregan!

Tips for you:

If embracing life as an author and learning new skills is a priority in your life for 2022:

  • Read Your Author Business Plan by Joanna Penn. It’s short but powerful and then do the work to create your Author Business Plan.
  • Join Beth Cregan and I for the Writing Road Trip in 2022 where we will talk about all aspects of the writing journey and support you including writing your Author Business Plan.
  • Listen to The Creative Penn Podcast.
  • Make a list of all the skills you want to work on and possible paths to learning these skills in 2022.

Keeping writing front and centre in every way

Co-writing with my buddy Beth Cregan of Write Away with Me most week mornings is a crucial element in keeping writing front and centre. I start the day with Morning Pages and Tarot as anchors for the day. The accountability with another writer helps me show up to the page regularly. We talk about writing too which keeps it centred and supported in my world.

Honouring the place of writing in my life as an author has been so important this year. To see my work published in the world is affirming and a goal of many years. Continuing to write and make space for writing as a wholehearted self-leadership skill that supports all of my life is so important. It’s the piece that holds everything else together and makes sense of it all. So I honour its place in my life including writing first thing most mornings.

Tips for you:

If keeping writing front and centre in every way is a priority for you for 2022:

Beth Cregan

Completing, beginning and progressing writing projects

I like the energy of this one. And it captures the idea that writing is an ongoing process and one that has many parts: including getting ideas, researching, drafting, editing, publishing. This year I have worked on the mindset to have writing projects going at different stages. Anne Janzer’s book The Writer’s Process has helped me with this through getting clearer about the different cognitive gears and tools used at different stages of writing. We can use knowledge of the writing process and our personal preferences to juggle multiple projects:

…stagger the start times so the projects are in different phases: research, drafting, incubation, revision. Create the right work environment and conditions for each type of work. If you are freshest mentally in the morning, do the drafting first thing. Schedule research and revision for the other parts of the day, and remember to leave unstructured time to ponder what you’re learning in the research.

Anne Janzer, The Writer’s Process p.142

As I completed both books ready for publication, I also worked on combining the Wholehearted Stories on Quiet Writing into a single draft. It helped manage my energy and keep me motivated to have a new writing project to work on as the others were completing. This idea of managing multiple projects is one I want to work on more in practice.

Tips for you:

If completing, beginning and progressing writing projects is a priority for you for 2022:

The book The Writer's Process by Anne Janzer sitting on a weathered table next to a Traveller's notebook and pen with a spiralled shell and an anemone shell.

Being visible as an author and talking about my books and writing

This has been a big one this year. As writers, we often operate behind the scenes. The work happens in relative privacy and sometimes no-one else sees what we are writing for a long time if ever. But the writing is one thing and the being visible and talking our books via Instagram or Facebook Lives, Masterclasses, virtual or in personal book launch events and on podcasts is another. It’s been new territory for me to be so visible as an author and I’ve embraced it.

I stepped up into talking about my book via Instagram lives. I’ve enjoyed speaking about Wholehearted and the writing process on the following podcasts:

The more you do it, the better you feel. Taking the time to prepare speaking notes on questions provided or brainstormed ahead helps immensely to be clear in what you want to say.

I also started my own Create your Story Podcast launching on 29 October 2021 and have enjoyed sharing conversations on my Wholehearted book with key connections. I’m loving podcasting and the deep conversations shared. I hope you find inspiration in there too – there are many gems!

I held two virtual book launches of Wholehearted given we were in lockdown. You can catch them on the podcast as Episode 2 and Episode 3. I also had a live event with the lovely Anna Loder.

You can join a Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club where we will do a year long community walk through the book with me as your guide and coach. It’s not too late to join. Our community call on Section 1 of the book is in mid January. So head here to join up now – there are still a few spots available.

It’s been a time of stretch talking about my books and writing in all these different ways but I’ve loved it and I hope it’s been helpful. I have so much more to say and share.

Tips for you:

If being visible as an author and generally is a priority in your life for 2022:

  • Send a pitch to me to be on the Create Your Story Podcast. I’d love some new author guests!
  • Listen to podcasts to see how others talk about their books, writing and authorship. Check out my interviews above.
  • Prepare speaking notes for answering questions on podcasts and author interviews so you are ready. Do this even if you don’t have any podcasts booked as yet! This helps you get clear on what you want to say about your writing.
  • Check out Joanna Penn at The Creative Penn for lots of author books and podcasts including her book, Public Speaking for Authors, Creatives & Other Introverts.

Helping others embrace writing and being a new author

As I’ve gone on my writing, authorship and publishing journey, others have reached out to me for advice and support. I’ve helped them in various ways – through my coaching and more informally. I’m a writing teacher by background and helping others to write and create their story is a consistent thread in my life. I found as I committed to writing in a deeper way and stepped more fully into the author role, it’s natural for me to help others.

Throughout my transition journey, I’ve offered women the opportunity to share their wholehearted story and step into being a guest writer on Quiet Writing. Over 20 women have taken up the offer. I’ve helped each of them to craft and share their story so they can feel proud and empowered. You can read the Stories of Wholehearted Living on Quiet Writing. Women have found this to be a healing process that helped them share their deeper, more personal story, sometimes for the first time. Each wholehearted story helps others to write theirs. Readers feel inspired and not so alone in their journeys to living more fully. I collated these stories into one volume for potential publication in 2022. It reminded me of all that I have done in this space as a writing teacher and coach and the powerful voices shared.

For a long time I’ve felt called to offer a program to create community, inspiration and connection for people while writing. This is especially for longer pieces where you need support and tenacity. In partnership with my morning writing buddy, writing teacher and mentor, Beth Cregan, we’ll be kicking off the Writing Road Trip in early 2022. So if writing is high on your list of priorities for 2022, get the support, mindset insights, skills, community and conditions to help you write. You can get on the email list for the Writing Road Trip program now. We are sending out writing inspiration via our newsletters. Working on this partnership and community with Beth is a real joy and I look forward to shaping a supportive writing-focused community in 2022.

Tips for you:

If embracing writing and being a new author is a priority in your life for 2022:

Helping women be the creator of their stories and the active author of their lives through enhanced self-leadership.

All of my work is about helping women to be the active creator of their stories. It’s the focus of the Create Your Story Podcast, my Wholehearted Books, my 1:1 coaching and my group coaching programs. I have a mindmap here of my planned creations when I kicked off my business with ‘Create Your Story’ firmly in the centre of that map of ideas. Create Your Story and Wholehearted Self-leadership are aligned concepts. And 2021 was the year in which many of these ideas came to fruition especially with the podcast and books being launched into the world to share inspiration and strategies with other women.

The place where I work most intimately with women is 1:1 coaching and this is the quiet undercurrent of my work which continued in 2021. Women set goals and moved through blockages; they dealt with unhelpful mindsets and they put practical strategies in place to help them achieve their desires. Coaching has been a bedrock in my own transition journey and I invite you to consider coaching with me if wishing to make change need support on that journey. We all can benefit from such guidance. Sometimes there’s only so far we can go by ourselves. Coaching is via 1:1 or group programs including the Book Club and Writing Road Trip in 2022.

Tips for you:

If creating your story and being the active author of your life is a priority for you for 2022:

So what was your Word of the Year and how did it manifest?

So take some time to reflect on your word of the year – or intentions and goals – and see how it played out. It’s not always as we plan. Sometimes it’s more conscious as it was for me this year. Other times it is more subconscious and we forget our word or focus and then find it has manifested anyway. But take the time to reflect! There are often buried jewels there and important realisations to take forward.

Let me know in the comments here on social media how this played out for you!

I’ve got my Word for 2022 ready to go! it came pretty easily this year. I’ll share more about it in the first week of 2022. So stay tuned. Love to hear what’s coming up for you as a focus for 2022 too.

Books self-leadership + leadership writing

Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club

December 8, 2021

The Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club next gathers together to take a deep year-long read together of Wholehearted and the Companion Workbook in December 2022! So get on the waitlist so you don’t miss out! Here’s why I created it, what it is, how it works, how to access it and why you might want to.

About me and my Wholehearted books

I’m Terri Connellan – an author, creative transition coach and personality type practitioner.

I wrote two books Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition and the Wholehearted Companion Workbook over 4.5 years as I went through a major life transition. Shifting from long-term government employee of 30+ years, I now enjoy a more creative life focused around writing, coaching, personality type, wellbeing and inspiring others.

My books written from the midst of transition, share the journey and the learning on the way to inspire your creative transition. The books chose me if you like because of the particular set of experiences I’ve been through and learned from that enabled me to write and share my story with heart.

I know how uncertain it seems, how lost and alone we can feel, when making major change. So I share my experiences to support you to be more wholehearted and shape the self-leadership skills to create what you desire.

Photo by Samantha Burns of the @MaianbarBeachCafe

The why of Wholehearted

The WHY of Wholehearted is to support women to develop the self-leadership skills to live more creative, wholehearted lives.

This WHY helped me to make sense and structure what was happening into something useful for myself and for others from this time of major change. And I offer this learning to you to help you shift to what is more positive to you.

If you haven’t read or bought Wholehearted yet, you can download Chapter 1 for free. This also provides an overview of the contents pages so you can see what’s in the book as a whole.

It was always my dream and desire to create support and a space for discussion about transitions people are going through based on the insights of the books. That’s why I’ve created the Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club for a year-long read of the books together.

So why a book club to support you in transition?

So you might be asking, why a book club to support me as I contemplate or go through change?

If you are going through a major change in your life, you’ll know it can feel VERY destabilising! The transitions can be many and varied such as:

  • job change
  • retirement
  • redundancy
  • retrenchment
  • wanting to write a book
  • making space for creativity
  • making art more central in your life
  • working for yourself instead of others
  • tree change
  • sea change
  • moving house
  • becoming an author
  • stepping into a new phase of creativity or writing or art
  • kids leaving home
  • relationship change
  • leaving paid employment
  • learning new skills you want to shape a business or practice around

And so much more. You might not even know exactly what it is but that where you are is not where you want to be.

Navigating change can take time and leave us feeling lonely at times as we re-create a new identity. Our networks might change. We are building on the foundations of what we have already created and working with our personality strengths in new ways which is positive but takes work. It is often about how we have defined ourselves so it means looking at ourselves in new ways.

So the Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club is a way of processing all of these experiences in a structured, supported way. Wholehearted is full of rich insights and resources! It’s the wisdom of a lifetime distilled. People are telling me they are savouring it, meandering, going down side tracks, reading other books mentioned within its pages. And that is exactly what I envisaged the reading experience to be like: something we carve out time for. It is a practical book above all; that’s why there’s an accompanying Wholehearted Companion Workbook.

About the Book Club + how to join in

So yes, it’s a book club, because book clubs are an awesome way to reflect and connect around reading. But it’s also a community/group coaching program with 90-minute monthly live calls with me as your coach asking questions to prompt growth, support you in transition and creativity, suggesting just the right resources, and guiding you to the best outcomes. Plus you get to learn from others, tap into my experiences of transition and writing the books and ask me anything you want!

We’ll work through the book and workbook one section at at time in a deep, guided read you can apply immediately in your life. So whatever change is happening (or not happening) for you, I hope you’ll join me in the book club.

This is a cost-effective way to get coaching guidance and commit to change with support and community. There is a monthly payment plan and an annual upfront one where you can save as well as 50% scholarship options for Black Indigenous Women of Colour, women with disabilities and LGBQT women and non binary people to encourage participation and equity. Apply here for to be considered for the scholarship option.

So head to the Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club enrolment and info page to find out more and join us. And join the waitlist to be the first to know when enrolment is open for our December 2022 into 2023 start!

I hope you will join me and the community of women that is gathering. You can DM me on social media too if you have any questions.

Want to read more?

Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

Wholehearted Reader Praise

Wholehearted Book Walk-through

Wholehearted Virtual Book Launch 1

Wholehearted Virtual Book Launch 2

Wholehearted Book Club Notes – generic Book Club notes, but they give you an idea of what we will cover over the year!

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